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Old 09-09-2005, 06:37 AM   #3
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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Originally Posted by Hookbill
I cannot say that I think The Ring stayed with Sauron as it suited it. I think The Ring genuinely believed that Sauron was the ultimate master; going to others was just a way of trying to get back to him ...
I'm a bit uncomforatble about the word 'belief' in this context. I'm not sure the Ring went in for belief &/or disbelief.

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And even if mastered by another and used to overthrow Sauron (and Tolkien says that Gandalf is the only one who would have even a chance of acheiving this), the Ring (and thus Sauron) would still be master in the end.
I think the relationship between Sauron & the Ring is subtle - as is his relationship with Middle-earth as a whole. In a way he is present everywhere his servants & the Ring are. His 'shadow' stretches across Middle-earth, his eye ranges across the land, the Nazgul are like the fingers of his hands (nine riders, nine fingers) reaching out to take what he desires. The Ring is his will, his 'life'. He survives as long as it survives. In that sense it is very like the fairy story theme of the giant's/monster's heart. The heart is kept safe in a secret place & so the giant seems impervious to harm. The only way to kill him is to find his heart & destroy it.

As Alatar has said, the Ring does not need Sauron in order to exist (there's never any suggestion that the Ring could be destroyed by killing Sauron). How much the Ring & Sauron are one is another question. Certainly, in order to use the Ring one has to make oneself into another Sauron as much as one is made into another Sauron by the overwhelming power of the Ring (ie overwhelming once claimed). The Ring is the will of Sauron - or at least it was that to begin with - whether it changed & evolved into something more is another question. I wonder how much of an individual personality Sauron actually had by the end & how much he was 'simply' a 'force' a 'will to power'.

(That was a bit too rambling - sorry)
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