[The Saucepan Man]

... and that the second sentence their paths lead together beyond the confines of the world means that they are to die almost at the same time.

Well, I suppose it is a matter of interpretation, Amarie. I read that as meaning that, once Arwen had chosen mortality, she shared her fate with Aragorn beyond the confines of the world. Their spirits would ultimately be reunited, regardless of when either of their respective deaths occurred.

Well indeed do children decry bitterly the passing of parents as a loss and even a betrayal. Yet such feelings can themselves be deemed selfishness.

Indeed, Bêthberry. Had Arwen stayed against her will because her children insisted (literally or emotionally) that she remained, that might be considered selfish on their part. But it seems that they were given little choice in the matter. Arwen's decision was made purely on the basis of her own feelings. As Estelyn makes clear by reference to the quote that she gives:

... her choice is based only on the fact that she does not wish to live on without Aragorn.

My point is that I find it hard to empathise with her decision to leave Middle-earth, whatever despair she might have felt at the loss of Aragorn, when I would have thought that her own maternal love for her children should have exercised such a strong pull on her.

Regardless of the dramatic symbolism in Arwen's choice, for me it still comes down to her believability as a character. I just find it difficult to believe that a loving mother would have been able to leave her children (albeit that they had reached adulthood) when she was not (As Estelyn's quote shows) yet weary of the world.

Even his romantic ideals weren’t such that he felt the need to die himself when his wife preceded him in death. (And that despite the fact that he had “Beren” and “Lúthien” engraved on their tombstones.) He lived two more active and fulfilled years after that.

But Tolkien himself was 81 years of age when he died and had therefore lived a full life according to his natural expectancy, whereas Arwen could surely expect to live on for a great many years following Aragorn's death.

...we need to accept the story the way Tolkien wrote it, rather than reading our own expectations and values into it.

Well yes, I agree to an extent. But if the story doesn't ring true then the reader will encounter difficulties in accepting it. And that this reader's reaction to Arwen's decision if (as it seems) it was based solely upon her despair occasioned by Aragorn's death.

[ September 07, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]