*pushes open the ancient oak door of the Books Forum, peers in tentatively*
...ah, the days when I used to spend my Barrowdowns time in here, trying to be sensible, rather than messing about in the light halls of Mirth....
Anyway, intrigued by the various character preferences emerging in Sil Survivor, I've wandered back in...
Some very interesting stuff here. I agree with
Eomer about Thorin, and really enjoyed
Child's fascinating quote about Tolkien's view of Sam.
Ang, your comment:
Quote:
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Attraction to flawed tragic characters, I suppose, is a Greek or Classical emotion in origin, rather than an attitude from Nordic tradition. Thus, perhaps, those admirers of Tolkien who, like me, strongly disagree with him aesthetically quite a lot of the time, will think his epic Nordic heroes a little bland and will build new heroes out of Classically inspired failures-running contrary to Tolkien's intentions, yes, but also exercising our privilege as readers.
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I would agree that Feanor is very much in the Classical tradition of flawed tragic hero: a textbook case of hubris if ever there was one.
However, I would say his sons (definitely the C's - Caranthir, Celegorm and Curufin) are rather more in the Norse saga tradition of unorthodox "dark" heroes. In the sagas, there were the conventional "light" heroes, fair-haired, noble and beloved by almost all: Gunnar from Njalssaga, Kjartan from Laxdaela. But in contrast were men like Grettir the Strong, Egill Skallgrimsson or Skarphedinn from Njalssaga, often ill-favoured in looks and always by fate. The ultimate example of the dark hero in Tolkien is of course Turin, while in contrast his cousin Tuor is so "light" and lucky that he makes it to Valinor against all odds and edicts.
Allow me to elucidate further by repeating myself, a quote from
this antique thread
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Free will is a Christian concept. The pagan North European believed in "luck" or fortune: gaefa in old Norse. Translate it as luck, fate or fortune, it is a complicated concept, and packs far more of a moral punch than the word "luck" does in our modern world picture. A man of luck - gaefumadr - does things and they work out for him. He is a man you want on your side. Meanwhile, a man of ill luck constantly causes rows and upsets wherever he goes and whatever he does, and eventually his 'ogaefa' (ill luck) becomes so overwhelming that astute and sensitive people can pick him out as what he is, even in a crowd. To me, poor Turin was very much an 'ogaefumadr', a man of ill luck. That's what I meant when I said that the Narn felt more pagan than other works of Tolkien.
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As for my own favourite unorthodox hero, I have always felt sympathy for Turin's mother Morwen, a woman straight out of Norse poetry and saga, made stern and cold by tragedy, hardship and war. That heartbreaking scene when, heavily pregnant and widowed, she sends the child Turin off to Doriath - she says nothing, but 'clutched the doorpost so that her fingers were torn.'