[Kalimac]

Lush, great topic. And Squatter, I'm impressed as always [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

Orual - your point about the church is well taken. I was brought up Catholic, and from what I remember, the situation NOW is that the marriage must be officiated by a priest, who of course automatically witnesses the thing.

But in early and even late medieval times it was very different; all that was needed was that the two parties involved make a vow to each other, followed by consummation (in fact, it was common for consummation to follow the betrothal, and not wait until the actual ceremony). The vow had to be made, but consummation was what put it into force, so to speak - simply making vows to each and not doing anything would not have the binding force of a marriage. There was a case in about the 14th century, I *think* in the Paston family (but don't quote me on that) where a high-born girl had married a young man beneath her in social standing, and what they had done was simply make vows to each other and then consummate. Her family tried to get it annulled, but the two were examined separately by a bishop and asked what words they had used to make their vows. Their versions of what they had said were identical, so they were declared to be officially married.

I'm guessing that it's like that for the Elves; witnesses are nice but not necessary; the vow and the consummation together are what make the marriage. I haven't read too much about Beren and Luthien so can't pronounce one way or the other, but if they've vowed to be faithful to each other and then slept together, I'm betting that Tolkien is regarding that as either a marriage or a very close equivalent.

Also, one other point. Tolkien was indeed a very serious Catholic, but he was also an artist, and his characters came to life under his pen while he wrote about them. The first thing a fiction-writer learns is that you do not control the story so much as your characters do, and sometimes they'll spring up and do things that you didn't expect, or hadn't planned. (Think of Pushkin's famous comment on finishing Eugene Onegin: "Did you know my Tatiana has rejected Onegin? I never would have expected it of her.") Even if Luthien had slept with Beren on a whim and with no commitment - only a marriage by the strictest Old Testament definition, and even that's arguable - it wouldn't necessarily say anything about Tolkien's views on the Church. I try to live according to the rules of religion - well, most of the time, anyway - but that does not mean that every story I write will have people behaving as the Church thinks they should, even the protagonists. Stories just don't work like that.