The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR1-FotR-Seq03

***Mister Underhill*** · 11-04-2005, 09:07 AM

I think what Lal is saying (correct me if I'm wrong, Lal), is that the sequence is edited in such a way as to make you think a Nazgûl got to Bag End ahead of Gandalf --

"There's no Bagginses here. They're all up in Hobbiton... that way!"
Songs and beers and table-talk at the inn.
Frodo staggers home -- it's creepy in there -- OMG! Is that black-robed dude there waiting for him?
Ahh! Oh, no, it's just Gandalf. Don't jump out of the shadows like that Gandalf, you nearly gave me a heart attack.
Frodo digs out the Ring.
Gandalf throws it in the fire. It's the Ring. Hoo-boy, it's gonna be good when that black-cloacked dude gets there. Should be any second now...
Wait, they're having tea? What's with all this talking? C'mon, black-cloaked dude, use your spurs or something.
Oh -- there's the wraith, and now he's got a buddy. Sweet! Go ahead and pack, Frodo, you're toast.
Sam, you want some too? Okay, black-cloaked dude attack imminent...
It's morning? Did the black-cloaked dudes decide to stop at a motel and catch some shuteye, or...?

I trace it back to that moment of suspense at Bag End and my previous comments. So much time passes between the Nazgûl being pointed the way to Hobbiton and Frodo's departure that the audience might easily be disoriented as to why the wraiths never show up. Book fans, of course, will understand that the Shire is a rather large place and perhaps forgive PJ, but judging the movie as a movie on its own terms, I think Jackson makes a mistake here by specifically trying to trick you into thinking a Nazgûl might be in Bag End so early in the sequence.

I think PJ trades what might have been a genuinely suspenseful moment -- a narrow escape from Bag End -- for a rather cheap one -- Gandalf jumps out of the shadows.

One thing I've noticed in rewatching these sequences is the amount of repetition of information. Within the first forty minutes or so, we see and/or are told the story of Isildur three times. I understand that there's a lot of information here for the audience to take in, so some repetition is necessary, but I wonder how much is too much, and whether or not Isildur's story deserves this much focus as a plot element. Something to think on.

I'd still like to come back and visit several points made earlier in the thread, but this has been a busy week for me. More later, perchance.

EDIT: Cross-posted with morm and alatar, who both make good points.

11-04-2005, 09:07 AM	#34
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	I think what Lal is saying (correct me if I'm wrong, Lal), is that the sequence is edited in such a way as to make you think a Nazgûl got to Bag End ahead of Gandalf -- "There's no Bagginses here. They're all up in Hobbiton... that way!" Songs and beers and table-talk at the inn. Frodo staggers home -- it's creepy in there -- OMG! Is that black-robed dude there waiting for him? Ahh! Oh, no, it's just Gandalf. Don't jump out of the shadows like that Gandalf, you nearly gave me a heart attack. Frodo digs out the Ring. Gandalf throws it in the fire. It's the Ring. Hoo-boy, it's gonna be good when that black-cloacked dude gets there. Should be any second now... Wait, they're having tea? What's with all this talking? C'mon, black-cloaked dude, use your spurs or something. Oh -- there's the wraith, and now he's got a buddy. Sweet! Go ahead and pack, Frodo, you're toast. Sam, you want some too? Okay, black-cloaked dude attack imminent... It's morning? Did the black-cloaked dudes decide to stop at a motel and catch some shuteye, or...? I trace it back to that moment of suspense at Bag End and my previous comments. So much time passes between the Nazgûl being pointed the way to Hobbiton and Frodo's departure that the audience might easily be disoriented as to why the wraiths never show up. Book fans, of course, will understand that the Shire is a rather large place and perhaps forgive PJ, but judging the movie as a movie on its own terms, I think Jackson makes a mistake here by specifically trying to trick you into thinking a Nazgûl might be in Bag End so early in the sequence. I think PJ trades what might have been a genuinely suspenseful moment -- a narrow escape from Bag End -- for a rather cheap one -- Gandalf jumps out of the shadows. One thing I've noticed in rewatching these sequences is the amount of repetition of information. Within the first forty minutes or so, we see and/or are told the story of Isildur three times. I understand that there's a lot of information here for the audience to take in, so some repetition is necessary, but I wonder how much is too much, and whether or not Isildur's story deserves this much focus as a plot element. Something to think on. I'd still like to come back and visit several points made earlier in the thread, but this has been a busy week for me. More later, perchance. EDIT: Cross-posted with morm and alatar, who both make good points.