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Old 11-29-2005, 08:50 PM   #38
Boromir88
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Do you think that Tolkien may have contrasted both Men to illustrate just how far those of Numenorean blood had fallen? Bearing in mind what Faramir says about Men:
Yes, and good points you have made. I think something else to show this would be the confrontation between Aragorn and Hama at the door into the Golden Hall. When Aragorn tries to assert his title of being "Elendil's heir" and therefor able to overrule Theoden, and Hama says doesn't matter who you are it's Theoden's rules.

Doesn't Tolkien talk about Rohan's Kings being "less royal" then Gondor's and even the Stewards? But, I agree in LOTR that we see them more equal, and that the Rohirrim are just as "royal" as Gondor. Maybe not by family name, but certainly now being able to be independent from Gondor and able to "overrule" them. As Hama makes it very clear (and Gandalf agrees) that even if Aragorn was the King of Gondor it wouldn't matter.

I also agree and think that Pride is the biggest thing that Gondorians have to overcome. Especially in the case of Denethor and Boromir. Pride can be a good thing, but overly pride is just arrogant and boastful.

Denethor, as we find out in the Appendices doesn't like anyone who's not under his command (probably one reason for why he doesn't like Gandalf, because he can't control him, he can't order him to do things).

In Boromir, he's probably the most prideful guy in the entire story. Constantly boasting about Minas Tirith, and how great the men are. When he starts falling to the Ring, how great he would be to defeat Sauron. Also, we know that he's very wary about Aragorn taking the throne, and Aragorn's claim to the throne. When Boromir is on his death bed, he "sees the light" so to say, as he gives up his pride and acknowledges Aragorn..."Go to Minas Tirith and save my people."

Then what's the difference in Faramir? Because, from what I see from Faramir, he is totally opposite from his brother and his father. He's not the boasting "Minas Tirith is so great" type guys, he puts it flat out and says..."Not if Minas Tirith was burning to the ground would I touch it." Now, I don't think this means Faramir could care less about Minas Tirith, more of just an educated man knowing that the Ring can only do harm, and wouldn't help Minas Tirith if it was burning to the ground. But what's different in Faramir? Perhaps, is the same thing with Theoden? Gandalf being sort of a mentor to Faramir, and Faramir listening and accepting Gandalf.
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