Thanks for the replies- this is a great forum
:
I asked this same question to Helge Fauskanger of Ardalambion;
My question:
Even though Herunumen appears in the Silmarillion index as Lord of the
West, is it a correct Quenya translation?
Helge:
It is a slightly strange form. Heru means lord, númen means west.
"Lord-(of)-West", then. But it is possible that the word comes from an
older conceptual phase, in which _-n_ was the genitive ending, and with
_núme_ rather than _númen_ was the word for "west" (compare Letters:361).
If so, we could read _heru-núme-n_ "lord-west-of".
The Tolkkien letter states:
'Q. nume 'going down, occident';numen 'the direction or region of the sunset' + nore 'land' as an inhabited area. I have ofetn used Westernesse as a translation.'
[sorry no diacritic marks in the above- there should be over 'u' in numen and 'o' in nore]
I've also been reading this website page:
http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~l.../Names_LE.html
There are a lot of unanswered questions on there.
My gut feeling is with Legolas on:
'Both are singular, and I think are used in genitive case - 'lord over the west' or 'lord to whom the west belongs' - in irreverence to the real lords of the West, the Valar.'
Not because of any linguistic understanding I have I must add
, but due to the context of the narrative. The Faithful are said to have taken great offence at this name. I can see 3 or 4 possible reasons for such offence:
1) Simply by breaking with the tradition of taking an Adunaic name on ascension. This is grounds for offence, but I think that there is something much deeper going on in the narrative. :
‘And the nineteenth king took the sceptre of his fathers, and he ascended the throne in the name of Adunakhor, Lord of the West, forsaking the Elven-tongues and forbidding their use in his hearing. Yet in the Scroll of Kings the name Herunumen was inscribed in the High-Elven speech, because of ancient customs, which the kings feared to break utterly, lest evil befall. Now this title seemed to the Faithful over-proud, being the title of the Valar; and their hearts were sorely tried’
Note: Tolkien uses the plural ‘Valar’. He also uses throughout the Akallabeth 'Lords of the West' to describe the Valar. according to Unfinshed Tales, the Akallabeth is supposed to be written by Elendil. as he was one of the Faithful, his lore and understanding of such subtleties would be good.
It’s also stated in Unfinished Tales:
'But these titles were held by the Faithful to be blasphemous, for they signified ‘Lord of the West’, by which title they had been wont to name one of the great Valar only, Manwe in especial.
Tolkien seems to be pointing to the actual words used rather than the breaking of the custom.
I'm assuming that the Aratar were given this title- not just Manwe. so in essence, the Valar did not take it themselves, the Elves gave it. Also, it did not 'belong' to any one Vala.
So this reasoning leads me onto the last two reasons which are more linguistic
2) The genitive case would cause great offence because it states ownership/possesion of the West. It's almost a reversal of authority.
3) The singular would again cause great offence, because it was not applied to any one Vala by the Elves, and none of the Vala laid claim to it individually. Also in support of this,
I noted on the above webpage (Lalaith's) that the article states that the two singular forms of the Quenya and Adunaic 'Lord of the West' are in the rejected texts.
4) The actual translation from Herunumen to Adunakhor is wrong. This would also be offensive- Tolkien was a linguist after all.
This lead me to my original question:
is Adunakhor the plural, singular, possessive?
The upshot is, I think the offence is on the linguistic level- the most profound level for Tolkien nad therefore the most provocative. In fact I can point out in the Akallabeth that at every stage in the dissolution of faith in the Kings Men, Tolkien articulates it in linguistic terms.
I may be in the guilty of simply agreeing with what I want to hear here
. I naturally want to hear an answer which fits into my 'reading' of the Akallabeth, which seems to agree with Legolas.
On the Quenya translation of 'To West Lay All Dread'
I agree that Galadriel, in Tolkien's scheme, would be the most reliable Keeper of the Elven lore.
Taking the meaning of 'dread' from the sea definately satisfies my sensibilities on this. I realise that the choice of words can be arbitrary to some degree because of the incomplete vocabulary, etc. To explain, the phrase is intended to be a dedication to a close friend of mine who passed away: his name was Wesley Alldred. The connotations of 'horror' are too severe for the context you understand. His place of rest is the Atlantic, on the Outer Hebrides, so the meaning of dread=sea would be more poetically fitting. I'm also trying to identify him poetically with one of the Faithful who sees the coming of the DownFall of Numenor.
With this meaning in mind, anymore suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much
monks