The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Lore & Learning in Middle-earth

davem · 01-15-2006, 08:23 AM

Good points.

I can't help wondering though about the nature & relevance of proverbs/riddles/ poems in Middle-earth, & how they do everything from preserve & transmit ancient lore of vital importance (Gandalf's rhyme of the Seven Stars for instance) to just provide folk with something to say (Butterbur's stream of cliches: 'It never rains but it pours, we say in Bree', 'One thing drives out another' 'Best chat I've had in a month of Mondays' etc, or the Gaffer's fund of 'wisdom', which we usually hear from the lips of Sam 'Where there's life there's hope' (traditional), '& need of vittles' (addition invented by the Gaffer himself??)

Then we have Ioreth's 'The hands of the king are the hands of a healer'...

EDIT

I wonder also about how proverbs are used by different individuals. It seems some are useful, some are statements of the obvious & some are meaningless. Some characters like Butterbur seem to use these proverbial sayings as a way of showing their 'wisdom', a kind of pretence at cleverness & insightfulness. (Shippey did bring up probably the most famous spouter of cliches in literary history - Sancho Panza)

01-15-2006, 08:23 AM	#3
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Good points. I can't help wondering though about the nature & relevance of proverbs/riddles/ poems in Middle-earth, & how they do everything from preserve & transmit ancient lore of vital importance (Gandalf's rhyme of the Seven Stars for instance) to just provide folk with something to say (Butterbur's stream of cliches: 'It never rains but it pours, we say in Bree', 'One thing drives out another' 'Best chat I've had in a month of Mondays' etc, or the Gaffer's fund of 'wisdom', which we usually hear from the lips of Sam 'Where there's life there's hope' (traditional), '& need of vittles' (addition invented by the Gaffer himself??) Then we have Ioreth's 'The hands of the king are the hands of a healer'... EDIT I wonder also about how proverbs are used by different individuals. It seems some are useful, some are statements of the obvious & some are meaningless. Some characters like Butterbur seem to use these proverbial sayings as a way of showing their 'wisdom', a kind of pretence at cleverness & insightfulness. (Shippey did bring up probably the most famous spouter of cliches in literary history - Sancho Panza) __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 01-15-2006 at 08:40 AM.