[the phantom]

Originally Posted by SPM

It seems entirely inappropriate to me, in the midst of the turmoil of the Second Age, for one who should have been contributing so much more to the struggle to absent himself from it for large periods in order to establish what was, effectively, a Middle-earth hippy commune.

Elrond did his share of running around commanding part of Gil-galad's forces, but yes, he did take the time to set up a refuge. That same refuge later became the center of healing, lore, and wisdom in all of Middle-Earth. And Elrond picked a good spot. From Rivendell, he was able to provide a stopping place for travelers preparing to tackle the Misty Mts, or a resting place for people who had already come over them. He was in a decent place to exchange messages with Lothlorien and keep the roads clear of evil when necessary.

Also remember that without Elrond, there would be no Aragorn. The heirs of Isildur and their possesions were preserved in Rivendell throughout the years. And the only reason the Ring was able to escape the Nazgul was because of Elrond and his refuge in Rivendell, so don't dare criticize Elrond for taking the time to set up Rivendell. He was doing exactly what was necessary, possibly as a result of his powers of foresight.

Also, remember how accepting Elrond was. Gimli had trouble getting into Lothlorien- dwarves didn't ever go there. In Elrond's house, however, Elves and Men and Dwarves and Hobbits were all welcome. A vote against Elrond is a vote for racism.

Originally Posted by SPM

And Elrond even bungled the one serious job which fell to him in the entire endeavour, that of persuading Isildur to destroy the Ring.

Oh, come on. No one, even Manwe, could've convinced Isildur to destroy the Ring. That was its power.

Originally Posted by SPM

I implore you, my fellow players, free this game from the stranglehold of the phantom’s machinations

I do NOT have a stranglehold on this game. One of my very favorites, Ar-Pharazon, got evicted on the first day. Once that happened, any chance of getting my way in this game was gone.

Originally Posted by SPM

Surely, Ang, you recognise that neither Feanor nor his sons would have approved.

From my point of view, that's the best reason you have, Sauce. As you know I am a huge Feanor-lover, and you are right that Feanor, who always did precisely what was necessary, probably wouldn't have done what Elrond did. But, perhaps Elrond had the correct approach for the time in which he lived. Feanor was meant for another time and situation, so though Elrond didn't act like Feanor, it is completely possible that he took the correct course of action.

Originally Posted by SPM

In any event, didn't Tolkien say somewhere that healing was primarily undertaken by the females of the Elven peoples?

Yes, he did. And the reason was because the males were the warriors, and so killed other beings, and the ability of elves to heal was diminished by the taking of life. For Elrond to reach the amazing level of healing expertise he had, he had to abstain from slaying in battle. But, let me remind you, he didn't really do that until the Third Age. In the Second Age, he was still running around fighting. It was during the following age that he settled down, and when there was killing to be done he sent his sons, who were very capable warriors.

Originally Posted by Ang

One of the most interesting things about Elrond is that he isn't King of Rivendell, or even often Lord. He usually sticks to Master...a title on about Sam's level. This shows a good dose of humility and plenty of wisdom

I agree. By right, he could have declared himself King of the Noldorin and Sindarin elves, but he never tried to. He simply did what should be done, and didn't worry about grabbing wealth and power for himself.

Originally Posted by Ang

By rewarding Sauron and punishing Elrond you are voting for insupportably large egos.

That's right!

Originally Posted by SPM

Actually the eviction of Elrond will strike a blow against insupportedly (sic) large egos, as it will rile the phantom.

Perhaps the reason my ego is so out of control is because my whole life I've seen the way humble people like Elrond are treated by folks like you and your fellow Elrond voters. Ever think of that?

By supporting Elrond, you will perhaps be encouraging me to curb my ego, and respect Elrond even more than I do.

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

++Elrond because as hearld to Gil-Galad, that makes him a kind of bodyguard. Being a hearld, he is to protect peace, and should have sacrificed him self infrnot of Sauron

The fact that Gil-galad survived as long as he did showed that Elrond did a mighty good job protecting him. It was only when Sauron himself came forward that Gil-galad died, and that was his choice. Like his grandfather Fingolfin, who chose to confront Morgoth, and like Theoden who seeked out the leader of the Haradrim on the battlefield, Gil-galad and Elendil made the choice to fight the leader of their foe. It was a chieftain's duel. Elrond would've been wrong to interfere. It's obvious that he was willing to, as it was he and Cirdan alone of the elves that stood beside Gil-galad in that contest when all else had fled.

When I look at the list of candidates, I only see maybe five who should be able to challenge Elrond. I think it's silly that he's a candidate this early.

I don't see anyone else on the list that was the best healer in the world, the greatest loremaster in the world, protected the line of kings for an age, crafted the plan and Fellowship that would save the world from Sauron, and controlled a river to boot.

Elrond is about the last person you should vote for.