[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

You know, LMP, one could almost categorize you as Catholic, with your desire to rank things by power in a hierarchy.

I have a great respect for the entire Church, into the current century; that includes the Catholic, of course. The nature of spiritual reality is hierarchy. That's one of my primary reasons for starting this thread. And I don't mind having a little fun with it.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Elempí, I wouldn't put Elrond and Galadriel over Gandalf the Grey. Gandalf the Grey was after all the one who dared to go to Dol Guldur and came back alive. Also he started the Erebor quest and the Ring quest. He defeated a balrog. I think Galadriel thought of him as more powerful than herself (or wiser, at least) and a proud noldo wouldn't do that without a reason. On what basis do you put Elrond and Galadriel over him?

Mostly to distinguish between him as Grey and White. But your points are well taken. I'll place him above his two fellow Elven Ring-bearers.

Originally Posted by drigel

Im wondering exactly what game LMP is trying to work out.

The Yule Log, in the Rohan forum, set in the beginning of the Third Age; I have posited an evil Maia (one of Melkor's original followers) who was Morgoth's "cook"; that is, chief torturer of fëar. This Maia was trapped for the entirety of the Second Age in the deeps of Thangorodrim, but the cataclysm that sank Numenor at the end of the Second Age, caused this Maia's release. Just my little bit of story making, no canonicity to it at all; but I'm trying to be faithful to Tolkien all the same.

Originally Posted by narfforc

... in the chapter The Battle of The Pelennor Fields Tolkien says: and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls. Is Tolkien saying half-trolls exist or is he likening them to an idea of what a half-troll would look like, either way the creature would be formidable. The problem of the list, is that when listing Men or Elves, there are sub-catergories, not all men are equal.

I shall add half-trolls, but in italics. Now I just need to figure out an appropriate place for them... I agree with sub-categories. Care to suggest placements?

And thanks for the solid research on Uruk-hai versus half-orcs. I just learned something new about LotR.

Originally Posted by Morsul

you forgot Nazgul.

Oops!

Originally Posted by Morsul

...i think goldberry should be a little lower

How low?

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Certainly Tom Bombadil should be above The Ring as it has no effect on him at all.

Well, that's a very interesting point, which I wrestled with when I first included him in my list. My rationale for his placement below Radagast was that he is no Maiar, but a nature spirit (which may be another kind of incarnated Maiar); and that he is not superior to the Ring but not at all in the same context. This is because the Ring is all about power and the acquisition of more while Tom Bombadil is, by nature, about remaining precisely within his limited sphere of power and authority. I'm not sure my rationale is sound, but I'd like to see it exploded before I change his placement, if you please. Ah, I see that davem has answered you with pretty much the same reasoning I've tried to use.

I'm moving Hobbits above Spiders. Think of the incident in the Hobbit. How many Spiders were there? What if there were as many Hobbits as Spiders ... on neutral ground? That's the trouble though: the Spiders would probably win in Mirkwood, and the Hobbits would win in the Shire. However, that's only in battle. The Hobbit culture is definitely superior to that of Spiders. Hobbits up. But then why not above Goblins? Because Goblins are more ruthless, though probably more cowardly. Well. Cowardliness is a worse disease than ruthlessness overcomes, so I think I'll put Hobbits above Goblins too.

Eru
Morgoth
Manwë
Varda
Yavanna
Ulmo
Aulë
Mandos
Tulkas
Lorien
Vana
Nessa
Earendil
Ancalagon
Ungoliant
Glaurung
Smaug
Sauron
Eonwë
Osse
Uinen
The Ring
Gandalf the White
Witch King of Angmar
Saruman
Fëanor
Finrod Felagund
Melian
Gandalf the Grey
Galadriel
Thingol
Elrond
Glorfindel
Balrogs
Nazgúl
Arwen Undómiel
Húrin
Túrin Turambar (Morgoth slaying is eschatological)
Círdan
Blue Istari
Thorondor
Eagles
Huan
Aragorn son of Arathorn
Radagast
Tom Bombadil
Ents
Trolls
Shelob
Beleg
Frodo Baggins
Eldar: Vanyar
Eldar: Noldor
Eldar: Teleri
Legolas
Eldar: Sindar
Faramir
Humans: line of Elros
Gimli the Dwarf
Half-trolls
Eldar: Laiquendi
Eldar: Nandor
Eldar: Avari
Wargs
Dwarves
Goldberry
Denethor
Boromir
Humans: Gondorians
Humans: Umbarians
Humans: Rohirrim
Humans: of the North (Bree, Dunlendings, Beornings, Esgaroth, etc.)
Humans: of the East & South (non-Umbarian Harad, Easterlings, etc.)
Half-orcs
Uruk hai
Orcs
Meriadoc Brandybuck
Samwise Gamgee
Peregrin Took
Bullroarer Took
Gollum
Hobbits
Goblins
Spiders