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Originally Posted by the phantom
I can't find fault in your pro-Celebrian vote, Sauce, so you can rest easy on that.
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Whew! I
am relieved ...
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Originally Posted by TP
Now answer me this- since the Ring thing would have happened even without him, how can you possibly justify saying that he caused it?
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Did you even bother reading my earlier argumentation? The whole point of Sauron's Ring scheme was to gain control over the peoples of ME, especially the Elves. Had he not been able to persuade Celebrimbor and his team to create the other Rings of Power, it is unlikely that he would have gone through with it. And, even had he done so, it is likely that, without their involvement, the One Ring would have been less powerful than it was. Celebrimbor's pride, greed and gullibility was a direct contributor to the mess that prevailed at the end of the Third Age. One which, ultimately, required Eru's direct intervention to sort out.
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Originally Posted by The 1,000 Reader
Finally, going into the west (giving up in a sense) doesn't make one a survivor.
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Neither, then, does getting butchered as a result of one's pride, greed and gullibility and ending up on an Orcish battle standard ...