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Old 04-20-2006, 11:15 PM   #11
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
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Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
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White Tree

Quote:
While that can be argued, I don't believe that we know this for certain. After all, he was in communication and cahoots with Sauron.~Sardy
I am going to side with Lal here and say that there is actually much evidence to show Saruman was planning something more than just being Sauron's puppet. Now Sauron had Saruman right where he wanted and was using Saruman to further his own plans, but Saruman believed he by doing this he would be in control and be able to Rule and Order:
Quote:
A new power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Numenor. This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand, and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it. We can bid our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge; Rule; Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any change in our designs, only in our means.~The Council of Elrond
Saruman believes that their task and why they were sent to Middle-earth can be completed, they just need to change their tactics so to say. Saruman is the perfect example of the "ends and means," kind of like does the means justify the end. Saruman thinks, oh well if we have to do and commit evil along the way, no biggy, our ultimate purpose and our reason sent to ME will be completed. Saruman thinks he's setting Sauron up, when in fact he's just fooled and turned down the wrong path.

Now I guess onto the question. Can the quote be taken more symbolically? As in if "there's smoke rising" meaning actions stirred up in Mordor again? Perhaps it's more of a metaphorical thing...or maybe both. There's actual physical smoke and then the though of Mordor is rebuilding, Sauron is back and is stirring up again.
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