[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

But I think we should leave the Owl to act as he or she thinks best. Discussing Owlish tactics amongst ourselves only risks exposing the Owl. In fact, Nogrod, I am wary of one who would suggest such a thing. I think it best that we concentrate on rooting out the Ducks.

Eurggh! Another nasty Elf. But I agree with you - provided that it doesn't risk exposing any (helpful) Gifteds. That's the reason I don't like talk of Owlish strategies. It just seems unnecessarily risky (or fiendishly calculated).

I can't see how discussing the owl tactics would endanger the Owl? S/he doesn't have to partake in an open discussion - s/he can just lay back and think about the things we say to help to make her/his mind. As I said earlier, this is just so different situation, as we will not have a track-record to trail after, if s/he dies. That's why I thought we could help the Owl by trying our best. Were I an Owl, I would appreciate the help (I was a seer in my first ever game, and boy was I lost! - and with this new rule, it's not obvious, that the traditional tactics apply).

And making arguments have this nice quality, that they can be shared - so no wolfy-orcsy-ducky scheming in there - as everyone can see a good point and a bad point... The duckies might want to twist good arguments by downplaying their worth, by attacking them rhetorically, or whatever. But even a duck can't twist 2+2 to 17,453...

So Saucepanman: your posts just quoted up above, put you in the head of my suspicion list to begin with...

1) the counter-argument is just a bad one (and as I have the impression of you being an intelligent person - that just calls to see foul-play in it).

2) Your second point: "In fact, Nogrod, I am wary of one who would suggest such a thing" could be seen as a rhetorical turn-around, trying deliberately to twist us out from helping the Owl, to loosely thrown out and about suspicions about other people (& trying to make yourself look like considerate person).

3) And then it is followed by this: "I think it best that we concentrate on rooting out the Ducks"! We all know the first day cluelesness before any real discussions: so what is this? Just rhetorics without any substance? At least it's not a call to have any discussion, that would reveal anyone's attitudes - or would make them slip anything.

This is just, what I would like all of us to be wary of! Sensible points put down or twisted, or set aside, with no real arguments, but leaning on other grounds like rhetorics, charisma, earlier renown, whatever...

Spm. I know, that a good and thinking villager might be doing something like the thing you are doing - opening some, even shallowly grounded - suspicions by casting his eye anywhere to find something doubtful on the first day. It's always better to have a reason for one's vote, even in the first day. You should see, that I'm doing exactly the same thing here.

EDIT: X-posted with Ang