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alatar · 05-08-2006, 03:52 PM

My apologies, davem if you took my post as another of the 'the poster's deluded' kind.

My point is that there are things that we can test. Your UFO experience is not one of those. It happened and may never occur ever again. We'll never know, and, as you, I really don't care what persons believe about it.

Your tarot experience is another thing entire. You may be done with it, but it shows that you believe that 'something worked.' I assume that your future was foretold? How does that work? Is there a 'future' out there that can be read? Does the future already exist?

Did the reader provide some clairvoyantly-acquired information? If so, in what medium does that information travel?

Whatever. I just thought it interesting that you discount the existence of a god yet seemingly accept a magical universe. And don't worry about my world view; if you say it works, then that's good enough for me. Just like others have belief systems that work for them (and me

), we all exist, as I think you said, in our own secondary worlds. In my world, if I cannot test it, then it's not that interesting...unless I'm discussing it on a web forum. Sometimes the explanation is not angels nor devils, quantum mechanical vibrations or auras, but that we do not yet know.

Gaps indeed.

And regarding cold reading: in the example that I gave I was not showing how much better/smarter I was (I have a lot to learn and always try to keep that in mind), but that there is a simpler explanation for 'psychic abilities.' Same with faith healers. The point here is that scientists are as blind as the rest of us, and we may be expert at some things, but there are areas in which we are wide open to the fake.

Because we want to believe so much, we do not see clearly. I do it too (though am too proud to ever admit it).

Humans create paintings and dollar bills. Some are legit; some not, and some so cleverly made that it's hard to tell the difference. All are made by people just like you and me. So why do we seek to limit the abilities of humans (benign and otherwise)? Why cannot psychic abilities simply be someone adept at reading people and telling them what they want to hear? Nope. Too mundane. Have to add the supernatural to really sell it.

Maybe Ar-Pharazôn knew, down deep, that Sauron was playing him for the fool and that crossing the Ban would be his downfall. But did his pride take hold, driving out his rationality, making him believe even his own lies?

05-08-2006, 03:52 PM	#211
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	My apologies, davem if you took my post as another of the 'the poster's deluded' kind. My point is that there are things that we can test. Your UFO experience is not one of those. It happened and may never occur ever again. We'll never know, and, as you, I really don't care what persons believe about it. Your tarot experience is another thing entire. You may be done with it, but it shows that you believe that 'something worked.' I assume that your future was foretold? How does that work? Is there a 'future' out there that can be read? Does the future already exist? Did the reader provide some clairvoyantly-acquired information? If so, in what medium does that information travel? Whatever. I just thought it interesting that you discount the existence of a god yet seemingly accept a magical universe. And don't worry about my world view; if you say it works, then that's good enough for me. Just like others have belief systems that work for them (and me ), we all exist, as I think you said, in our own secondary worlds. In my world, if I cannot test it, then it's not that interesting...unless I'm discussing it on a web forum. Sometimes the explanation is not angels nor devils, quantum mechanical vibrations or auras, but that we do not yet know. Gaps indeed. And regarding cold reading: in the example that I gave I was not showing how much better/smarter I was (I have a lot to learn and always try to keep that in mind), but that there is a simpler explanation for 'psychic abilities.' Same with faith healers. The point here is that scientists are as blind as the rest of us, and we may be expert at some things, but there are areas in which we are wide open to the fake. Because we want to believe so much, we do not see clearly. I do it too (though am too proud to ever admit it). Humans create paintings and dollar bills. Some are legit; some not, and some so cleverly made that it's hard to tell the difference. All are made by people just like you and me. So why do we seek to limit the abilities of humans (benign and otherwise)? Why cannot psychic abilities simply be someone adept at reading people and telling them what they want to hear? Nope. Too mundane. Have to add the supernatural to really sell it. Maybe Ar-Pharazôn knew, down deep, that Sauron was playing him for the fool and that crossing the Ban would be his downfall. But did his pride take hold, driving out his rationality, making him believe even his own lies? __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.