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Old 06-01-2006, 02:03 AM   #16
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bęthberry
And if elves could burn, would this suggest a true source for balrogs? If orcs are perverted elves, then possibly a large mass of elves, aflame ... And if their ears are large and pointy enough, then possibly they were mistaken for ... wings.
I think its more likely to have been the other way around. I think its more logical that originally there were Balrogs who, due to the stresses of life in the early geological stages of Arda, went to pieces. These Balrog fragments then took the form of individual beings. Of course, it would be necessary for these Elves to substitute a more acceptable account of their origin once they had realised which side their bread was buttered & switched to the winning side, so we get the whole 'Cuivienen' malarky, which all intelligent readers of Tolkien long since dismissed as a nonsense. I think its plain that the real motivation behind the Elves' fear of Balrogs (as evinced by Legolas in Moria) was that they might blow the gaff & reveal the truth of Elven origins. Scholars of Khuzdul have speculated that Gimli's words at that point 'Durin's Bane!' were actually a mishearing by Frodo of words in the dialect of Erebor: 'De' arinz p'en(z)' which translates roughly as 'Ere' Legolas - He says 'Search your feelings - I am your father!'

We do know from The Book of Lost Tales that originally there were a very great number of Balrogs, but in later versions the number reduces significantly - as the number of Elves increases. I don't think this can be put down to mere 'coincidence'.

It would be interesting to know how many Elves were produced by the average exploding Balrog.
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