Thread: LotR2-TTT-Seq18
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Old 06-15-2006, 01:50 PM   #2
Sir Kohran
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: England, UK
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I love how this scene contrasts with the original Hornburg stuff. When you first see it and the poeple inside, everything looks very real - the crowds of villagers, the worn, sturdy walls, the grey and brown colours - it all looks very down-to-earth. Now, as nightfall (along with the Uruk Hai...) approaches, everything gets a very blue and grey colour, and the sounds echo a lot, and the movements are slower and more pronounced, almost as if it's a dream, which really fits with Theoden's eerie monologue.

I just love the song Theoden quotes (directly from the book, too). It's very sombre and quiet, with this old man contemplating how he ended up trapped in a corner, with no mighty warriors at his command, and an enemy army marching on him that he can't possibly stand up to. Also, the book tells us that 'The Horse and the Rider' are Felaróf and Eorl. Here, however, the movie leaves it as a mystery - who is the missing rider? Is it Eomer, the King's nephew, who should be here, fighting against his land's enemies, but isn't? Is it Theodred, the prince, who will not fight or ride again? Is it Gandalf, who seems to have vanished, just when he is needed most? We're not told, and I think it adds to the effectiveness.


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Arming the child almost brought tears to my eyes, and that’s not that easy.
I know...I was only twelve when I first saw this bit, and I couldn't help but think of myself in this position - being pulled from my family and forced to wield a weapon - against thousands of big, armoured Uruk Hai. The thought of it scared me greatly. The same thought still rings in my headwhen I see the kids at my local Primary School - all around the age of the kids in the film. They've never wielded wepons before, and hopefully will never have to.

There's a great anti-war feeling in the books; Tolkien always talks about the fighting, butchery and suffering of warfare very closely, and the impact of it on the soldiers is always commented on. Tolkien knew what he was talking about; he would have felt this psychological fear a lot during his time on the Western Front in WWII, before, during and after the fighting.
I think Peter Jackson nailed this fear of war perfectly. We see the looks of fear on the soldiers' faces, we see the sadness of the civilians they leave behind, we see the cold weapons they are forced to wield.


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I see my own son here (and daughters, but mostly my son) and think what it would be like seeing him with too-large helm placed atop his young head, or to be given an axe not made for chopping wood. Innocence is being lost, and there will be blood.
Cheer up, alatar; it's possible that with the arrival of the Elvish reinforcements, the pressure for numbers wasn't as great on the Rohirrim, and so at least some of the children were able to go back to their mothers in the caves.


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The Uruk army in landscape view looks to number in the billions, and there’s just too many of them. It’s like, no matter who might show up to help, there’s no way humans will see another dawn.
Yes - Peter Jackson does a brilliant job of making the battles seem hopeless - how can this army of old men and young boys possibly even fight this enormous army of steel?


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An aside - Saruman surely is swatting this fly with a large nuclear hammer, isn’t he?
Well, the Hornburg is hardly a fly - if Saruman wins, he wipes out the last heir to the throne of Gondor, the King of Rohan, one of his possible heirs (Eowyn) and also, at least several hundred soldiers and civilians, plus some of their horses. If Helm's Deep falls, so does the rest of Rohan, and in turn, Gondor, because it will lack the vital help of the Riders in the final movie, and be crushed by the combined legions of Mordor and Isengard. So Saruman's focus on crushing Helm's Deep is quite understandable. Also, at this point, he might not know that Gandalf's not there, so he would obviously want as many troops as possible on the off-chance that the Wizard's there.


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But he’s really asking why? Why here and now? Why me? He’s faced with certain extinction, the Kobayashi Maru, and that seeks to overwhelm his soul.
Because up until now, Theoden's always had something to put his hope in for the future. When he and his people left Edoras, he thought that as long as he got to Helm's Deep, things would all be okay. And yet - now that he's here, now what? He's got nowhere else to run to; he's surrounded on all sides with no way out. That's why Theoden's retreat-instead-of-fighting was the bad idea that Gandalf, Aragorn and Gimli named it.


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Do Merry and Pippin know for sure that Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas are in trouble?
Well, Gandalf might have filled them in on what was going to happen when he met them in Fangorn.


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The urgency in Merry’s words only adds to what we know is coming - the Battle at Helm’s Deep.
Oh yes...the great battle of our...er, no, that bit comes later . But it's still a neat fight all the same. After all, it got fourth place in the top ten battles list in the Empire magazine.
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'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord.'
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