[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Saucie

Perhaps this is the basis for the claim of hypocrisy. If so, I do not agree that this is what is happening. You have expressed your views. Others, including me, have commented on them. Just as it is your right to express your opinion, so others have the right to express theirs. You cannot expect or force everyone to agree with you. That said, the best way forward is for us to try to find some common ground on which we can move forward in a manner which minimises the risk of incidents like this occurring.

I was actually refering to all post-game discussions and some in game discussions that have ended up this way, not just this debate. And it's not just me- it's anyone who has ever pointed out something that others simply don't want to hear. Many players, beyond those I have mentioned, have been subjected to the same. I'm not talking about blatent insults and name-calling, I'm talking about being truthful with how we think things went. Any time someone has said something less than "Great job," about the game, they have been attacked for it.

But the note about hypocrisy was this:

Originally Posted by Roa

They don't want their style of play dictated? I dont want my style of speech dictated.

Which Esty mistook took as a statement that I should be allowed to say whatever I want. Really, I was pointing out the absurdity of people demanding that I change the way I talk when they flip out over the slightest suggestion that their way of playing a game is less than great.

Originally Posted by Saucie

As I see it, this debate is not, or at least should not be, “everyone against Roa” and I want to avoid it becoming polarised in that way. There are a range of opinions here on various isues, and I see no reason why they should not be calmly and civilly discussed as such. But casting yourself as the victim only serves to increase the polarisation into the two camps: Roa and everyone else.

I'm not trying to turn this into a "Everyone vs Roa" debate- that wouldn't help me in the least. I'm using myself as an example because I (obviously) understand my point of view better than anyone else's. I am aware that some people actually agree with me, or least aren't particularly against me. But I can only be certain about my own view- for everyone else, I'd have to make assumptions.

I felt Nogrod’s apology to be genuine. If he has anything further to add, then I somehow doubt that he will hold himself back.

I certainly believe Nogrod is sincere in his apology. I just don't think he did anything particularly wrong, and I really admire that he would simply apologize rather than waste the effort defending himself. What I meant is that he shouldn't be made to feel bad for saying what he thought.

Originally Posted by Saucie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roa
I'd also like to point out that many people who are so insulted over post-game discussion are the very ones who toss out "stupid," "foolish," and other such insults in game. So, it's okay to be rude and insulting during the game where everyone's trying to have fun, but after the game is over, we can't even say, "We didn't do well this game, and I think it was because...?"
No. It’s not okay to be rude and insulting in a game. The forum policies apply just as much within a game as they do to a post-game discussion. Of course, the role-play element has been known to involve a little “play acting” rudeness, but I think that it is generally pretty clear when that is the case.

This was a rhetorical question and another comment on hypocrisy. I'm not referring to play acting rudeness- it's werewolf, we are trying to kill each other, after all. I'm talking about the explicitly insulting terms. Just think back to the game Diamond modded- Attack of the Wereducks. Because of in-game rudeness, many people left the game feeling horrible. There were direct insults flying all over the place. Yet these very people say that I'm insulting, when I haven't singled anyone out, or used any sort of direct name-calling.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

As far as Loki goes, I do not think your statement is correct. True, some members did not necessarily relish his style or personality, but I was not aware that anyone directly told him he was not welcome to play.

Originally Posted by Saucie

I think that many, myself included, found Loki’s approach unduly offensive and out of keeping with the forum policies noted earlier. That said, provided that he is able to participate in a more measured manner, I would welcome his renewed paricipation.

I took up pming Loki (in attempt to calm things down) and do you know what I found out? People neg-repped him, and pm'ed with various messages of "I hope you leave the boards," and "I really don't like you. Just go away." Maybe his out of game style was overly rude, but his in game wasn't nearly as rude as everyone made it out to be. In fact, he played just like Garin, a player who was never attacked with the same viciousness. Really, the cause of the anti-Loki movement in game was Nogrod (who should not be blamed as he was doing his job as a wolf.) He made three posts, on a day that had +200, and everyone decided that he was just causing too much confusion and trouble, mostly because they just didn't like him.

Originally Posted by Saucie

It strikes me that this is an example of a statement that might have been better phrased so as to avoid any possibility of causing offence. In essence, you are entitled to state your opinion, but you should take reasonable care to do so in a manner that will not cause offence to others.

I see your point here, and I apologize. That was unecessarily rude of me. I'll try to avoid statements like that in the future.

And I would like to reiterate that I never mean to insult anyone. As Form pointed out, I'm extremely self-confident and highly opinionated, and as he missed, brutally honest. This gets me into trouble often, but it's who I am. Don't take me personally- if I want to attack you personally, I'll do it in PM.