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Originally Posted by Roa
was actually refering to all post-game discussions and some in game discussions that have ended up this way, not just this debate. And it's not just me- it's anyone who has ever pointed out something that others simply don't want to hear. Many players, beyond those I have mentioned, have been subjected to the same. I'm not talking about blatent insults and name-calling, I'm talking about being truthful with how we think things went. Any time someone has said something less than "Great job," about the game, they have been attacked for it.
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This statement has me floored because it's simply not true. It's... not... true. You are taking one or two instances of extreme criticism that garnered negetive reactions (Loki in DW, and then you and Nogrod in Zydeco) and portraying it as an "all the time everyone for every little thing" trend. If you want to give me other examples that back up your claim feel free to go searching because I really doubt that you will find any -- or at least, any that have taken place since I've been around to see them. I can think of one game right off the top of my head which involved post game comments about lack of stellar play that were not attacked -- Cailín's game. There were comments about the village win not being totally deserved and I for one was among the ones who made such a comment. No one was attacked for saying these things. Therefore the above quoted statement is false.
One thing that really caused me to respond on Zydeco was that it seemed you were upset that you won because the village didn't perform as well as you thought they should have -- in effect robbing you of the chance to win in impressive fashion against all odds, etc. Perhaps I misunderstood your feelings but whenever the winner obviously does not appear to appreciate the fact that they won I have to question the class of their actions. This is different from the latest Lovers game because it seemed that the Lovers played very well and truly deserved to win, so even though I was a villager I regretted somewhat that they hadn't technically prevailed.
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Originally Posted by Roa
Just think back to the game Diamond modded- Attack of the Wereducks. Because of in-game rudeness, many people left the game feeling horrible. There were direct insults flying all over the place. Yet these very people say that I'm insulting, when I haven't singled anyone out, or used any sort of direct name-calling.
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I'm afraid I don't see the point of dragging the Wereducks game through the mud. I already apologized to Mithalwen and Glirdan for my role in causing them some distress in the game -- and I rather think you are making it out to be a lot worse than it was. The only people who actually defected from the game were you, Sleepy, and Cailín and you all told me it was for RL reasons. One thing I do remember quite clearly about that game was that you ripped into Nilp very hard for his playing style. You later apologized, I grant you, but really, I am not sure you want to be bringing up Wereducks in favor of yourself. Trust me, I am
not being sarcastic when I say that -- I really do think that is quite the worst game to use as an example of how people are jumping on you for no good reason. As far as I can see you are now turning this into "Roa vs certain people who will go unnamed but they played in or modded Wereducks" and that's really rather transparent.
As to SpM's sticky notice, I think I made my opinions on this whole subject fairly clear last time I posted (in the Zydeco game thread). I had expected some discussion there and was rather surprised to log on tonight to see all this. I am quite in agreement with what SpM wrote, and so have not much else to add, except for this one last point:
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Originally Posted by Roa
And I would like to reiterate that I never mean to insult anyone. As Form pointed out, I'm extremely self-confident and highly opinionated, and as he missed, brutally honest. This gets me into trouble often, but it's who I am. Don't take me personally- if I want to attack you personally, I'll do it in PM.
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I'm sorry, I just don't see how denying that you are in any way responsible for how people take your statements helps matters any. It seems to be at the core of this discussion -- the difference between constructive criticism and deconstructive criticism. The line can be thin, but just taking the stance that to be abrasive is your personality type and people should just deal with it because they should understand your motivations is not going to resolve this issue. Quite the opposite. Brutal honesty is only as honest as one's own subjective viewpoint.