[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

I like this scene - one of the few light moments in the movie before the storm comes. Also, it's good character development - compare these two laughing, silly Hobbits with the two heroes they later become.

My only problem (well, it most likely seems that I have a problem with everything...) is that we start with the hobbits as they were 6+ hours ago. Watching the movies as they came out yearly in the theater, maybe we need to be reminded that these two are fools until necessity calls for more. But watching the movies back to back, it's like Merry and Pip grow up a bit then quickly revert. Frodo does not do the same, and Gandalf is on a terrible slide from confident leader to quivering jelly, so there's precedent for not having to remind us.

A bit disappointed that Theoden didn't get to talk to the Hobbits about pipe-weed, but I guess the focus is on the re-union of the Fellowship.

To quote movie Boromir, that leaves more time for drinking...scenes.

Wasn't there a scene at Helm's Deep in the Extended Edition where Eowyn was told they didn't have much food? If so, the rations would have been rather meagre for everyone - especially when fighting for an entire night.

Don't remember seeing that, and surely if Gimli were that hungry he could have found something to eat. Wasn't Helm's Deep under siege for less than 24 hours? I think that it may just be another comic moment from the Dwarf.

What DOES this 'Young Master Gandalf' line mean? As a Maia, isn't Gandalf older than Treebeard?

Was that in maia, man, Ent or Warg years?

So it's perfectly correct that Sauron and Saruman in the films would know vaguely about the quest.

In the books I thought that Saruman did his best to conceal knowledge from Sauron; in the movie it seems more like Saruman is the Eye's toady. We'll see more later why the whereabouts of the Ring and who knows what makes no sense, especially as we've already seen a Nazgul 'see' the Ring in Frodo's hand in Osgiliath.

As an aside, in both the movies and the books, WHY do the Ents wreak terrible slaughter on Saruman's slaves (people and creatures who didn't really have a choice in what they did), and yet are prepared to let the real cause of all their grief go unharmed?

My point exactly. In the books if that one Ent (can't recall the name) would have caught Saruman outside of Orthanc, well, Gandalf could have skipped the visit (but then no palantir ). In the movie the Ents could have slain Saruman at any time, and I don't think that he had his staff on the balcony. Anyway, that's why I wondered if it were that Saruman was more open to attack sans staff. Or did Grima recover a special anti-Istari knife in the barrows outside Edoras, like a complete alternate universe thing mirroring Merry's recovery of his Witchbane blade?

It gets me that they used so many rather throw-away book lines in Saruman's speech, but when some book remarks about Saruman's end could have been very useful, everyone just shrugs at the death of the tyrant who could have taken over the entire West, had things gone his way.

You're so right. Wasn't Saruman 'the baddy' for movies 1 and 2? So why is there no resolution when he dies? No one even quips, "One down, one to go."

Why is Treebeard present at the foot of Orthanc when Gandalf and co. first arrive, and then vanishes for the entire exchange with Saruman, but is then in the exact same place as before once Saruman has died?

Ents can move very fast, it is said, and, like a squid, create a blackness that confuses their enemies. That and Treebeard could just sense that fireball coming.

I like the long shot of Edoras with Eowyn...but why aren't there any guards with the company?

It was to be a surprise party; everyone jumped out after the King showed up.

Seems kind of ironic that in the old FOTR Sequences, people were annoyed that Merry and Pippin were foolish and silly. Now, they are the ones rescuing us from even greater foolery and silliness...I feel terribly sorry for poor Gimli.

At least they started out silly. Gimli was grim, then in FotR EE he was shown to be thoughtful when he spoke about Galadriel. Somewhere between the Emyn Muil and Rohan Gimli was replaced by the the Buffoon.

This is actually okay with me as Gandalf shows a little confidence in saying that Frodo is alive.

"The sun and stars have not been blotted from the sky, and the Eye's banner do not fly from North to South, East to West, and so I'm going to go out on a limb here and think that Frodo's okay." What happened to Gandalf standing at night, while the others rested, looking over the horizon, 'seeing' something that confirmed what he felt in his heart?

I look forward to it...thanks for the great posts, alatar and Essex. They make me think about the films more deeply.

Thanks for your observations.