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CSteefel · 09-27-2006, 10:48 PM

I think one has to distinguish between consistency within the movie itself and the issue of whether the book was followed or not.

Clearly, the scene in which the staff of Gandalf is broken by the Witch King is very different from the book. In the book, I think the battle was meant to be either a standoff, or one in which Gandalf might have won eventually due to the reasons given above, the Maia origin, the return to Earth after the fight with the Balrog with new powers, the fact that the Black Riders are driven off early on by Aragorn, later on the Pellennor Fields by Gandalf himself. But equally clearly, Tolkien wanted the humans (Eowyn and Merry specifically) to bring about the end of the Witch King, thus establishing their own heroic claims. It would not make for much of a story to have Gandalf simply deal with all of the enemies.

As far as the movie is concerned, some of these same arguments can be advanced, although Peter Jackson is not necessarily adhering to the hierarchy of Middle Earth discussed elsewhere. So there is just the question of how Gandalf is able to drive off the Nazgul at Weathertop, and then again on the Pelennor Fields.

My main problem is that the breaking of Gandalf's staff seems gratuitous, since Tolkien provided a perfectly good mechanism by which the final confrontation between the Witch King and Gandalf can be avoided in the interest of the dramatic tension of the story. That is, the Witch King is called away by the arrival of the Rohirrim, while Gandalf is called away by the threat to Faramir. In the book, the confrontation between the two is merely delayed in the minds of the Witch King and Gandalf, except that Theoden is killed in the interim (which Gandalf bemoans in the book, pointing out that he might have saved him, as he did Faramir earlier) and then Merry and Eowyn finally dispatch the Witch King, fulfilling the prophecy of Glorfindel some 1300-1400 years earlier.

So yes, for me this was the worst scene in the movie and the one that seems the most out of place, although I come at the movie after having read the book about 10 times. Still, even in the movie we see the defeat of the Balrog by Gandalf, even at the cost of his own life, and then the return with apparently enhanced powers, so this breaking of Gandalf's staff simply does not make sense.

09-27-2006, 10:48 PM	#302
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	I think one has to distinguish between consistency within the movie itself and the issue of whether the book was followed or not. Clearly, the scene in which the staff of Gandalf is broken by the Witch King is very different from the book. In the book, I think the battle was meant to be either a standoff, or one in which Gandalf might have won eventually due to the reasons given above, the Maia origin, the return to Earth after the fight with the Balrog with new powers, the fact that the Black Riders are driven off early on by Aragorn, later on the Pellennor Fields by Gandalf himself. But equally clearly, Tolkien wanted the humans (Eowyn and Merry specifically) to bring about the end of the Witch King, thus establishing their own heroic claims. It would not make for much of a story to have Gandalf simply deal with all of the enemies. As far as the movie is concerned, some of these same arguments can be advanced, although Peter Jackson is not necessarily adhering to the hierarchy of Middle Earth discussed elsewhere. So there is just the question of how Gandalf is able to drive off the Nazgul at Weathertop, and then again on the Pelennor Fields. My main problem is that the breaking of Gandalf's staff seems gratuitous, since Tolkien provided a perfectly good mechanism by which the final confrontation between the Witch King and Gandalf can be avoided in the interest of the dramatic tension of the story. That is, the Witch King is called away by the arrival of the Rohirrim, while Gandalf is called away by the threat to Faramir. In the book, the confrontation between the two is merely delayed in the minds of the Witch King and Gandalf, except that Theoden is killed in the interim (which Gandalf bemoans in the book, pointing out that he might have saved him, as he did Faramir earlier) and then Merry and Eowyn finally dispatch the Witch King, fulfilling the prophecy of Glorfindel some 1300-1400 years earlier. So yes, for me this was the worst scene in the movie and the one that seems the most out of place, although I come at the movie after having read the book about 10 times. Still, even in the movie we see the defeat of the Balrog by Gandalf, even at the cost of his own life, and then the return with apparently enhanced powers, so this breaking of Gandalf's staff simply does not make sense.