[Aiwendil]

Lalwende wrote:

It's real alright. That's what I mean by beyond comprehension, as most people don't understand Faerie and how to recognise it, even less how to get there. Tolkien might have been there - there is a tantalising echo in SoWM where Smith sees the warriors step down from their boat that came from somewhere beyond his comprehension. I know where there are slips into Faerie, blurs in time and consciousness, they're all over the place. It's beyond rational thought.

All right, let's be clear about this. You have a theory that there is a "real" place (or thing?) called Faerie, which is "beyond comprehension" and "beyond rational thought". Fine. But you must accept that, when you evaluate fairy-stories in the context of this theory, your conclusions are contingent upon acceptance of that theory. You can of course apply this belief to existing fairy-stories, but this approach is going to be highly personal, and they will not be relevant to others unless and insofar as those others agree with your theory. And they will be even less relevant if what we are interested in are Tolkien's ideas about Faerie.

I agree, however, our readings of the Saxon and medieval texts must be tempered by bearing in mind that these may have been transcribed by Christians who obviously wouldn't be amoral!

This is undoubtedly true and is a good point. Beowulf is a pagan tale told by a Christian, and Gawaine is a thoroughly Christian story. I don't know enough about myth and folklore to know whether there are examples of moral (i.e. non-amoral) stories outside of the Judeo-Christo-Islamic tradition.

But are we to disqualify stories written by Christians from classification as "fairy-stories"? Aren't Beowulf and Gawaine just as valid as such? And, what's more important, didn't Tolkien consider them valid as fairy-story?

Hey, what about Reader Response? I can think of Eru as evil if I want!

Okay, sorry if you felt the cold hand of literary oppression from my direction.

I do agree that Ungoliant is a strange and, in many ways, ambiguous character. I just don't agree that she is morally ambiguous. At least, I certainly wouldn't expect Tolkien to agree have agreed that she is.