The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Lalwendë · 10-27-2006, 02:01 AM

Some biographical info - in as far as we can know what he thought - his Catholicism was obviously important to him, stemming from his mother's conversion to the faith; his faith was inextricably linked to the love of his mother and grew from there. During the 20s there is plenty of evidence to show that Tolkien's attendance of Mass declined somewhat, and in his writings you can see him struggling to reconcile the effects of war with his faith. This ultimately is what contributes to his fatalistic outlook and maybe to the creation of Eru, who is not always the kindest God! One later influence on him was the shift to Vatican 2 - something I don't know the ins and outs of - but anyway, he did not like it, preferring the old Mass.

We must note that though Tolkien was devout, devout does not necessarily equal evangelistic; to Tolkien his faith was central to his life, but it was not the only thing in his life. He was also thoroughly English and it simply is not done for someone of his class to be overly showy about his faith, especially an Oxford academic. Oxford is home to the High Church, a following in the CofE which uses a lot of catholic ritual; it is solemn and mystic like Roman Catholicism, but like most things in English culture, it is also subtle. It's worth looking up the Oxford Movement to get a sense of the culture in Oxford which remains to this day. Note that Tolkien felt that Lewis's tendency to proselytisation after his conversion had affected his chances of securing the English Chair at Oxford.

Remember as well where we get our quotes from. Tolkien, a Catholic, wrote to a Catholic priest about how his work was 'fundamentally Catholic'. This might be expected. And in writing to a literary scholar, he might say quite the opposite. Even Tolkien said different things to different audiences/correspondents.

Tolkien did not in any way shape or form lie about his work. He was a great writer and a subtle one. He did not approve of the Narnia series with their allegories, even though these are very subtle (and scholars are now bemoaning the fact that Lewis has sadly ended up pigeonholed as in reality, his allegories are much subtler than marketing would have us believe!) so its always worth considering that when considering his own works. If Tolkien didn't like it in the work of Lewis, would he have liked it in his own work?

Finally, does Tolkien say that LotR is a Christian work? Doesn't he say it is a Catholic work? That's a whole different kettle of fish.

10-27-2006, 02:01 AM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Some biographical info - in as far as we can know what he thought - his Catholicism was obviously important to him, stemming from his mother's conversion to the faith; his faith was inextricably linked to the love of his mother and grew from there. During the 20s there is plenty of evidence to show that Tolkien's attendance of Mass declined somewhat, and in his writings you can see him struggling to reconcile the effects of war with his faith. This ultimately is what contributes to his fatalistic outlook and maybe to the creation of Eru, who is not always the kindest God! One later influence on him was the shift to Vatican 2 - something I don't know the ins and outs of - but anyway, he did not like it, preferring the old Mass. We must note that though Tolkien was devout, devout does not necessarily equal evangelistic; to Tolkien his faith was central to his life, but it was not the only thing in his life. He was also thoroughly English and it simply is not done for someone of his class to be overly showy about his faith, especially an Oxford academic. Oxford is home to the High Church, a following in the CofE which uses a lot of catholic ritual; it is solemn and mystic like Roman Catholicism, but like most things in English culture, it is also subtle. It's worth looking up the Oxford Movement to get a sense of the culture in Oxford which remains to this day. Note that Tolkien felt that Lewis's tendency to proselytisation after his conversion had affected his chances of securing the English Chair at Oxford. Remember as well where we get our quotes from. Tolkien, a Catholic, wrote to a Catholic priest about how his work was 'fundamentally Catholic'. This might be expected. And in writing to a literary scholar, he might say quite the opposite. Even Tolkien said different things to different audiences/correspondents. Tolkien did not in any way shape or form lie about his work. He was a great writer and a subtle one. He did not approve of the Narnia series with their allegories, even though these are very subtle (and scholars are now bemoaning the fact that Lewis has sadly ended up pigeonholed as in reality, his allegories are much subtler than marketing would have us believe!) so its always worth considering that when considering his own works. If Tolkien didn't like it in the work of Lewis, would he have liked it in his own work? Finally, does Tolkien say that LotR is a Christian work? Doesn't he say it is a Catholic work? That's a whole different kettle of fish. __________________ Gordon's alive!