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Old 10-30-2006, 07:54 AM   #27
The Saucepan Man
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The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
Ring

I'd like to look back at the passage in question:

Quote:
'Then suddenly he seemed to see me, and he laughed at me. It was cruel. It was like being stabbed with knives. I struggled. But he said: "Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!"~The Palantir
There is no doubt in my mind that the references to "dainty" and "it" are intended to refer to the Ring. That is the natural reading of the passage and it is how I have always understood it.

Had Tolkien intended Sauron to be referring to Pippin rather than the Ring, he would I am sure have phrased it something like this:

Quote:
'Then suddenly he seemed to see me, and he laughed at me. It was cruel. It was like being stabbed with knives. I struggled. But he said: "Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that you are not for him, my dainty. I will send for you at once. Do you understand? Say just that!"
The words "Do you understand" indicates that Sauron intended there to be no confusion. Believing Pippin to be the Ringbearer, he wanted it to be clear to Saruman that the Ring was not for him (Saruman) and was to be surrendered to him (Sauron) forthwith. He therefore asked Pippin to convey this to Saruman in a manner such that Saruman would understand exactly what he meant. Sauron was assuming that the hobbit was the Ringbearer and that Saruman knew this. In these circumstances, Pippin's repetition of the words used ("Say just that!") would convey to Saruman exactly what Sauron wanted.

Imagine that Pippin is the Ringbearer and Saruman knew this (Sauron's assumption), what would be Saruman's natural conclusion from the following words?

"This dainty is not for you. He will send for it at once."

That Sauron wanted the Ring and was sending for it.

Now imagine that both Sauron and Saruman knew that Pippin was not the Ringbearer. What would be Saruman's natural conclusion from the same words? There is no natural conclusion. It could mean a number of things. It is ambiguous. Sauron would not have wanted any ambiguity. So, in these circusmtances, he would have told Pippin to tell Saruman that he, Pippin, was not for Saruman. The fact that he did not suggests strongly (absolutely, in my view) that Sauron had made the assumption referred to above and that he was talking about the Ring.

As for Sauron's knowledge of the identity of the hobbit to whom he was speaking, I would agree wholeheartedly with the phantom that there was no way that Sauron would be able to tell one Hobbit from the other in the circumstances prevailing. The only argument that I have seen which might support the opposite view is Fordim's suggestion that he would be able to "feel" the Ringbearer. However, given the various points that have been made about the the Palantir (that Sauron was using it without rights of ownership and that its "transmission" was in any event less than perfect), it seems to me entirely credible that he would not have been able to feel the presence of the Ring through it, particularly given the natural meaning of the words used. Had the Palantir allowed the user to "feel" the presence of power, then Sauron would presumably have been able to detect that Saruman was not present. He did not. He assumend that Pippin was with Saruman.

So, why was Sauron so comfortable about the Ring having fallen into the hands of one such as Saruman?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithadan
And then, of all things, Sauron laughs!
Perhaps it was a nervous laugh.

It is true to say that Sauron feared that someone, particularly someone of great power, would seek to use the Ring against him. My guess, however, is that he knew that it would take anyone (even one such as Saruman) time to master the Ring (assuming even that he could, which is open to speculation). He was no doubt hopeful that Saruman would voluntarily return the Ring to him, in return for great favour in his "new order" (whether he intended to bestow it or not). Of course, he was also aware that Saruman was capable of treachery. In such circumstances, however, he was, I am sure, confident that he would be able to overcome Saruman before Saruman would be able to master the Ring. Perhaps he was over-confident, but we know that Sauron was not exactly lacking in self-confidence (ultimately, to his detriment).

He laughed because finally (in his mind) the Ring had turned up in circumstances where he was confident of securing its return.

I also agree with the phantom that one Nazgul was despatched because that Nazgul happened to be in the vicinity and would be able to get to Isengard quickly to establish whether Saruman was prepared to give up the Ring voluntarily and, if so, take custody of it. If he was not, then I am sure that Sauron would not have hesitated to unleash such power as was available (all of the Nazgul, at the very least). We know from Unfinished Tales that Saurman was fearful of the Nazgul when they came to Insengard in full force. Sauron would, I am sure, have been confident that he could obtain the Ring from Saruman one way or another.
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