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littlemanpoet · 11-10-2006, 10:18 PM

So Maiar (such as Sauron) want bodies (at least as clothing) in order to interact in (and/or control) a material world.

And Sauron wanted a Ring in order to control a certain collection of other Rings. He also knew that Ring would be virtually impossible for anyone to destroy. However, he never expected to be destroyed himself, and never expected the Ring to be destroyed. I think that that much can be read from Gandalf's words in the Council of Elrond and other parts of LotR. That is, Sauron's and the Ring's near-invincibility are at best by-products of its making. So if Sauron didn't make the Ring with great concern for his own and the Ring's destruction, then the remaining motivation was domination of Arda. Fair enough.

Why would these Maiar be so bent on affecting material Arda? I suppose the only answer provided from our vast resources of Tolkieniana, is pride, envy, ambition and all that for the evil Maiar, and love and its related virtues for the good Maiar.

It should be pointed out that the Ring is, unless heated, unobtrusive, though made of gold. So it appears unextraordinary.

I think Folwren's speculative answer bears some consideration as well.

And much thanks to Raynor for providing the background information from the various works.

The Ring served to focus Sauron's power in terms of the other rings, but not only. There seems to be some ability to affect others from great distances, such as whole armies. Did that come from the Ring, or just from Sauron's power? Was Sauron's native power increased by the fact of the Ring? That is, let's say Sauron = 7 and the Ring = 6; does it make sense within the way LotR was sub-created that Sauron increases, by virtue of the Ring, from a 7 to a 10? ...such that even while dispossessed of the Ring, he functions effectively as a 5 (instead of the expected 7-6=1)? (the numbers are of course arbitrary and meant strictly for illustration).

11-10-2006, 10:18 PM	#10
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	To summarize.... So Maiar (such as Sauron) want bodies (at least as clothing) in order to interact in (and/or control) a material world. And Sauron wanted a Ring in order to control a certain collection of other Rings. He also knew that Ring would be virtually impossible for anyone to destroy. However, he never expected to be destroyed himself, and never expected the Ring to be destroyed. I think that that much can be read from Gandalf's words in the Council of Elrond and other parts of LotR. That is, Sauron's and the Ring's near-invincibility are at best by-products of its making. So if Sauron didn't make the Ring with great concern for his own and the Ring's destruction, then the remaining motivation was domination of Arda. Fair enough. Why would these Maiar be so bent on affecting material Arda? I suppose the only answer provided from our vast resources of Tolkieniana, is pride, envy, ambition and all that for the evil Maiar, and love and its related virtues for the good Maiar. It should be pointed out that the Ring is, unless heated, unobtrusive, though made of gold. So it appears unextraordinary. I think Folwren's speculative answer bears some consideration as well. And much thanks to Raynor for providing the background information from the various works. The Ring served to focus Sauron's power in terms of the other rings, but not only. There seems to be some ability to affect others from great distances, such as whole armies. Did that come from the Ring, or just from Sauron's power? Was Sauron's native power increased by the fact of the Ring? That is, let's say Sauron = 7 and the Ring = 6; does it make sense within the way LotR was sub-created that Sauron increases, by virtue of the Ring, from a 7 to a 10? ...such that even while dispossessed of the Ring, he functions effectively as a 5 (instead of the expected 7-6=1)? (the numbers are of course arbitrary and meant strictly for illustration).