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Originally Posted by doug*platypus
Some have mentioned that the term "sin" or "sinners" is not applicable in Middle Earth. I agree that it would be out of place within the text, which was purged of almost all references to religion. But can we not discuss the book using such terms? Isn't it, after all, "consciously" Catholic in the revision?  I can't help but feel that by having Frodo fail at the last and give in to the temptation of the Ring, Tolkien was trying to say that even great heroes are not without sin (although he still upheld such chivalric heroes as Aragorn, Gandalf and Faramir). |
My personal problem with 'sin' is, that it is a religious term. All the wrongdoings in Tolkien's works (except maybe those which are directly opposed to Eru) are not given a religious perspective, or if so then I haven't seen it so far.
If I follow you correctly, then Frodo's sin was his weakness, his inability to withstand the temptation of the ring at the end. But can you hold somebody morally responsible for something that was outside his ability? Also, it's hard for me to imagine anybody would have had the strength to destroy the ring at that point (Isildur could have, I guess, because Sauron's presence was not present at the time). This could mean, in consequence, that everybody's a sinner because they are unable to entirely resist evil.
nah...
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Originally Posted by doug*platypus
What do people think of the other folk that I mentioned: Boromir, Fëanor, Saruman, Wormtongue, Thingol. Did Tolkien dish out "just desserts" to these characters as a consequence (thanks, Holbytlass!) of their ignoble actions?
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Surely not. I can't think of one character in LotR or Silm who doesn't meet the end they deserve. It's all "right", if you know what I mean. But I don't think we need 'sins' for this. There seems to be a general understanding in the books about what is good (pity, f.ex.) and what is bad (betrayal, f.ex.), morally/ethically, without anything remotely like the Ten Commandments or something.
If Tolkien doesn't call the wrongdoings sins, I just see no reason why we should.
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Originally Posted by Holbytlass
Why do you find Frodo to be at fault with Shelob? Please explain because I still haven't found my books and I only recall that he was delirious and therefore was semi-conscious of his surroundings.
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And that was his fault, I think. You don't walk into Mordor like that. As I said, overconfidence is the wrong word, but Shelob wouldn't have gotten him otherwise. It's not a moral fault or a sin, but it was Frodo's bad.