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Originally Posted by Menelvagor
By the way, please excuse that I cannot give exact quotations here, since I only have (German) translations of the books. But I know and like Tolkien's books for more than 25 years, and so I have decided to take part in your discussions...
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Don't worry, you are not the only one here who can't quote directly, I, for example, have only Czech translations (hello, neigbor
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But to the question you posed. My opinion is this - just opinion, nothing more, but I hope another perspective might help to solve this out. So, I was thinking like this: Minas Morgul was taken, but I don't necessarily think it was taken by Orcs at the time (or, there might have been Orcs present, but not as an army I think - maybe just some raid here, some raid there... whatever). Had it been open warfare, Gondor would probably strike out and deal with it (as you pointed out, it was some 30 years after they defeated Angmar). I confess that I have no idea how they did it, but if I look to the Appendices as you mentioned - ah, the unexact quotation comes, please if someone has original, post it here, I'd like to know how much I have strayed from the original *lol*:
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Originally Posted by Appendix A, 4, translated to English from p.300 in the Czech version of Return of the King, second edition by Mladá fronta 1993; translation by Legate of Amon Lanc
"It was during the reign of king Eärnil, as was revealed later, when the Witch-King on his flight from the North came to Mordor and there he assembled the other Ringwraith whose leader he was. But it was not until the year 2000 when they came out of Mordor through the pass of Cirith Ungol and besieged Minas Ithil. They captured it in 2002..."
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(and so on
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The Witch-king came to Mordor and he
assembled the other Ringwraith - no Orc mentioned. I'm not saying that there were none (but maybe...?), but it seems that they were not so important for this. And
they = ringwraith, came out of Mordor, and they (also as Faramir says) have taken Minas Morgul. It was the Ringwraith who have done the most important part of the job, I guess similar as to when Osgiliath was taken when Boromir and Faramir were there (FotR, Elrond's Council, Boromir speaks of "black rider" (Witch-king) and "wherever he came, both men and horses were as driven by madness").
What confuses me, is the "siege" part - I just can't imagine nine nazgul standing in front of the gates of Minas Ithil for two years. My point of view is like that: the nazgul and some Orc started to trouble the surroundings of Minas Ithil, more of a guerilla war, much like the later Rangers of Ithilien, and in 2002, they finally - somehow by sneaking in there, or by treachery - got inside Minas Ithil, and in the horror and panic the Nazgul caused most of the inhabitants have fled or were slain. I know this is not good, but it is all that I can think of.
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Originally Posted by Menelvagor
(or did Shelob play some role in turning Minas Ithil to Minas Morgul)?
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I don't think Shelob had something to do with it. She was not joined with Sauron (as very nicely described in the TT on the parallel with the cat). It is written that the Ringwraith have come to Imlad Morgul through Cirith Ungol, but there is no mentioning of "taking Shelob along". So she probably was there for herself, as before, and as after. Just don't think Tolkien would go for it. Nevertheless, it is an interesting thought.