The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

Alcuin · 12-25-2006, 11:51 PM

I believe Nogrod was destroyed in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age, in which Beleriand was broken and sank below the waves. If you line up the maps, you will see that a huge hole was rent in Ered Luin, creating the Gulf of Lhûn: in the process, I think Nogrod was utterly ruined, if not completely destroyed. Belegost might have survived in damaged form into the Fourth Age. “Appendix B” of RotK says that around II 40, “Many Dwarves leaving their old cities in Ered Luin go to Moria and swell its numbers.” These cities must be Belegost and Nogrod.

In The Treason of Isengard, “The First Map”, Map I shows Belegost well south of the Gulf of Lhûn in the Ered Luin. This would be in the mountains near the westward-reaching spur south of the Lhûn. In the commentary on this map, the test reads, “There were and always remained some Dwarves on the eastern side of Ered Lindon, where the very ancient mansions of Nogrod and Belegost had been – not far from Nenuial; but they had transferred most of their strength to Khazad-dûm.” These maps were drawn in 1943.

The map, section 2, in “The Later Quenta Silmarillion” in War of the Jewels shows Belegost north of Mount Dolmed and Nogrod south of it. Part 13, “Concerning the Dwarves”, §125 says that “‘Belegost was in Eredlindon south of Beleriand’ … seems to represent a reversion to an older conception of the place of the Dwarf-cities”, and then refers to the same map. These maps seem to date from the 1950s, if they were constructed with the rest of the text of “The Later Quenta Silmarillion”. (See the introductory text to that section of War of the Jewels.)

Morgoth’s Ring, “Annals of Aman”, entry for Valerian Year 1250, §84 states that it was the dwarves of Belegost who helped Thingol delve Menegroth. Since it was the Dwarves of Nogrod who killed Thingol out of lust for the Nauglamír with the Silmaril set in it, and the Dwarves of Nogrod who sacked Doriath while “the Dwarves of Belegost sought to dissuade them from their purpose” (Silmarillion, “Of the Ruin of Doriath”), it may be that Nogrod was destroyed.

I do not know how Tolkien finally settled on this matter. Belegost is not marked in the same place on the Lord of the Rings as it was in the 1943 map; in fact, it is not marked at all. Nogrod would be where the Gulf of Lhûn lies in both the 1943 and the 1950s maps.

12-25-2006, 11:51 PM	#6
Alcuin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Nurn Posts: 73	I believe Nogrod was destroyed in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age, in which Beleriand was broken and sank below the waves. If you line up the maps, you will see that a huge hole was rent in Ered Luin, creating the Gulf of Lhûn: in the process, I think Nogrod was utterly ruined, if not completely destroyed. Belegost might have survived in damaged form into the Fourth Age. “Appendix B” of RotK says that around II 40, “Many Dwarves leaving their old cities in Ered Luin go to Moria and swell its numbers.” These cities must be Belegost and Nogrod. In The Treason of Isengard, “The First Map”, Map I shows Belegost well south of the Gulf of Lhûn in the Ered Luin. This would be in the mountains near the westward-reaching spur south of the Lhûn. In the commentary on this map, the test reads, “There were and always remained some Dwarves on the eastern side of Ered Lindon, where the very ancient mansions of Nogrod and Belegost had been – not far from Nenuial; but they had transferred most of their strength to Khazad-dûm.” These maps were drawn in 1943. The map, section 2, in “The Later Quenta Silmarillion” in War of the Jewels shows Belegost north of Mount Dolmed and Nogrod south of it. Part 13, “Concerning the Dwarves”, §125 says that “‘Belegost was in Eredlindon south of Beleriand’ … seems to represent a reversion to an older conception of the place of the Dwarf-cities”, and then refers to the same map. These maps seem to date from the 1950s, if they were constructed with the rest of the text of “The Later Quenta Silmarillion”. (See the introductory text to that section of War of the Jewels.) Morgoth’s Ring, “Annals of Aman”, entry for Valerian Year 1250, §84 states that it was the dwarves of Belegost who helped Thingol delve Menegroth. Since it was the Dwarves of Nogrod who killed Thingol out of lust for the Nauglamír with the Silmaril set in it, and the Dwarves of Nogrod who sacked Doriath while “the Dwarves of Belegost sought to dissuade them from their purpose” (Silmarillion, “Of the Ruin of Doriath”), it may be that Nogrod was destroyed. I do not know how Tolkien finally settled on this matter. Belegost is not marked in the same place on the Lord of the Rings as it was in the 1943 map; in fact, it is not marked at all. Nogrod would be where the Gulf of Lhûn lies in both the 1943 and the 1950s maps.