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Lalwendë · 12-30-2006, 02:59 AM

Elves did use capital punishment. Eol is thrown from the walls of Gondolin as punishment. Though its one I often think was mistaken - surely locking him up would have been more fitting? Humane? An elf driven mad by his wife running away? Anyway, the results of it are quite far reaching as Tolkien shows!

I like what Child says, she picks up on a major theme on Tolkien's work, that we may have the 'right' to do something, but is it always the 'right' thing to exercise that right? The words of Gandalf remind us that life is precious, but there are also several instances where someone who has committed terrible wrongs is given a chance of forgiveness or clemency. Grima is given this by Theoden, and Saruman by Gandalf. Had Tolkien's world really been the medieval world then there would have been no question in cases such as theirs, they would have been executed in the most gruesome manner. Traitors were routinely subject to being Hung, Drawn and Quartered (hung until not quite dead, then their skin flayed from them and their body eviscerated and cut into quarters, all while still alive). Oath breakers in Northern society may have had the Blood Eagle enacted on them - being cut open and then spread out, pinned to a wall or tree until they died.

I don't think there's any question Tolkien will not have known about medieval 'justice' due to his reading and knowledge, but we don't see any of these punishments in his work, unless it is something done by the 'bad guys'. The possibility of capital punishment exists in the West, but we rarely see it used, instead we see leaders choosing not to use it, as though Tolkien makes a statement about their sense of fairplay and justice. Of course Theoden must dismiss Hama from his post, he has not carried out orders; this would be exactly the same in the modern world. But he has the sense of justice not to put the man to death.

You could compare Beregond deserting his post with the deserters of WWI. These poor men were shot at dawn; some still remain unpardoned even though we live in more enlightened times. Tolkien will have known about these cases. Beregond deserts, and according to the ancient laws of Gondor, he could be put to death for this. But Aragorn chooses not to do that. He makes sure that Beregond is 'punished', albeit in a symbolic way, by dismissing him from his post; it's 'symbolic' because in reality all that happens is he is reposted.

12-30-2006, 02:59 AM	#14
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Elves did use capital punishment. Eol is thrown from the walls of Gondolin as punishment. Though its one I often think was mistaken - surely locking him up would have been more fitting? Humane? An elf driven mad by his wife running away? Anyway, the results of it are quite far reaching as Tolkien shows! I like what Child says, she picks up on a major theme on Tolkien's work, that we may have the 'right' to do something, but is it always the 'right' thing to exercise that right? The words of Gandalf remind us that life is precious, but there are also several instances where someone who has committed terrible wrongs is given a chance of forgiveness or clemency. Grima is given this by Theoden, and Saruman by Gandalf. Had Tolkien's world really been the medieval world then there would have been no question in cases such as theirs, they would have been executed in the most gruesome manner. Traitors were routinely subject to being Hung, Drawn and Quartered (hung until not quite dead, then their skin flayed from them and their body eviscerated and cut into quarters, all while still alive). Oath breakers in Northern society may have had the Blood Eagle enacted on them - being cut open and then spread out, pinned to a wall or tree until they died. I don't think there's any question Tolkien will not have known about medieval 'justice' due to his reading and knowledge, but we don't see any of these punishments in his work, unless it is something done by the 'bad guys'. The possibility of capital punishment exists in the West, but we rarely see it used, instead we see leaders choosing not to use it, as though Tolkien makes a statement about their sense of fairplay and justice. Of course Theoden must dismiss Hama from his post, he has not carried out orders; this would be exactly the same in the modern world. But he has the sense of justice not to put the man to death. You could compare Beregond deserting his post with the deserters of WWI. These poor men were shot at dawn; some still remain unpardoned even though we live in more enlightened times. Tolkien will have known about these cases. Beregond deserts, and according to the ancient laws of Gondor, he could be put to death for this. But Aragorn chooses not to do that. He makes sure that Beregond is 'punished', albeit in a symbolic way, by dismissing him from his post; it's 'symbolic' because in reality all that happens is he is reposted. __________________ Gordon's alive!