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Originally Posted by davem
What it seems to do is make him more of a cypher than he originally was.
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Yes, and I think that was the point of Tolkien's alterations. Eru is mysterious. But then, so is the existence and character of everything else.
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Originally Posted by davem
The myths Tolkien loved are effectively both polytheistic & dualistic & the myth he creates is, in fact, exactly the same. Its as if he feels for philodsophical reasons he must keep a 'God' figure, but he wants to remove him as far as possible from the work. He wants to have his cake & eat it. I suppose a more complex Eru would have required him to be a more active participant in the story. Yet at the end (Athrabeth) he seems to want him to be just that.
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What, really, would a "more complex Eru" have been like? How could he have been much different from one of the Abrahamic Gods? I think that Tolkien makes Eru more vibrant through his addition of
estel to the Legendarium, an addition that would not work if Eru were as active in the world and as promising as the Christian God is portrayed to be. Admittedly,
estel only shows up decades after the major changes to Eru's character are made, but they fit very well with Eru's presentation, much better than they would if Eru were very different than he is. Tolkien used a typical "God figure" to draw the (typical Western) reader into the story, and then used Eru as a vehicle for bringing out different themes and concepts than are often discussed in Western religion.
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Originally Posted by davem
Ok, in other words, I accept that what you say is correct - except I'd argue that he doesn't so much develop the character as remove the little 'character' that he seems to have. After that he seems to lose interest in him at all. I wonder whether the changes are for philosophical or narrative reasons?
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Though I have no way of ever knowing, I tend to think more philosophical. The original version of the
Ainulindalë was written, of course, just about at the time that Tolkien was fighting in World War I. To me, Eru's speeches in the original read very much like Tolkien was, through his words, grappling with the troubles in the world that he had encountered. He would not put words into the mouth of the God he actually believed in, of course, so he used the similar-seeming deity in his newly-constructed world to work out his concerns about good and evil. As time went on, however, he did not need Eru for this role, and so he took out many of these lines and made him more opaque. That's just how I see it, anyway.
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Originally Posted by Lalwendë
The odd thing about Frodo going into the West is that he probably did die, and possibly much more quickly than if he had stayed in The Shire (laying aside the possibility that he may well have committed suicide had he not got any healing). Valinor is no place for a mortal:
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But then, it wasn't to Valinor that he was going. Technically, Frodo went to live in Tol Eressëa, which may not have had the same effects on mortals as the land of the Valar proper (I tend to think it didn't). Admittedly, I am biased by my hope that Sam got to see Frodo after sailing into the West in his old age.