[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lal

What obstacles? If life was perfect there would be no obstacles.

I don't think that Arda Unmarred is equated with perfection; perhaps the timeless halls of Eru - or maybe just Eru is perfect. If I understand correctly, Arda Unmarred is Arda without the strong element of melkorism: accelerated moral and physical decay. Water would still carve out stone, the general interaction of elements would be preserved and, as far as I see, we are in agreement that good and evil predate Melkor or his rebellion, at least as moral choices. There would still be evil choices, yet evil would not have such a compelling force, tainting the body, and therefore the mind. Indeed, there are no obstacles, if we don't see them: either because we don't consider them as such, when they objectively exist, because we accept them a priori; either because, when they objectively exist, we consider them a mere challenge. The main challenge "there", as well as "here", is achieving our potential; in both cases it requires effort. Esspecially for humans, time is limited, and doing the best with it is always a challenge.

Originally Posted by Lal

And wasn't that Art produced via the pride of Feanor?

I would call this a secondary, minor, motivation, if any at all. From what I gather in the Silmarillion, he and the noldor were working out of "delight"; of himself, it is stated that he "was driven by the fire of his own heart only, working ever swiftly and alone". I interpret this as saying that it was the unique creative fire which he had, which no elf ever after had, that was driving him forward. I would dare say that a similar fire drives an artist to create.

Originally Posted by Lal

I would also dispute that the Art made in Valinor exceeds that produced in Middle-earth.

In aesthetics terms, you are probably right. However, if Art is to represent a reflection of God's creation, the inhabitants of Middle Earth had nowhere near the opportunities of time, knowledge, inspiration and guidance as the elves had in Aman, where their works and knowledge are preserved and they live near great inspirational models, the Valar and the Maiar, who by mere presence inspire and help, if not directly and through their knowledge.

Is there anything in Middle-Earth to parallel the sources of inspiration that were in Aman? For where else is it the memory of Ainulindale? What of the Silmarils or the palantiri? What even of Miriel's broideries?

Originally Posted by Of the silmarils and the darkening of Valinor, Later Quenta Silmarillion, HoME X

By her was the craft of needles devised; and were but one fragment of the broideries of Miriel to be seen in Middle-Earth it would be held dearer than a king's realm, for the richness of her devices and the fire of their colours were as manifold and as bright as the glory of leaf and flower and wing in the fields of Yavanna. Therefore she was named Miriel Serende, the Broideress.

Originally Posted by Lal

And that in itself is moving - that beauty only becomes important when reflected against the backdrop of ugliness, peace only important when contrasted with war, Life when contrasted with Death.

While for human eyes the small light of a candle is more impressive when viewed in a darker environment, it is no reason reject a more powerful light, be it from the stars, the sun, the radiance of a vala, or of the imperishable flame, at the heart of the world. Tolkien's Art attempts to reflect, how imperfectly as it was, a splinter of a more powerful light; it is a drive towards it, not a rejection of it.

Originally Posted by Lal

Rather than Men being the ones to benefit from contact with Elves, I think it is the other way around.

Why? The elves have experienced death due to violent causes long before they met the Men; they have been enslaved, tortured and peverted by Melkor, their works and houses destroyed. They lived through fear and agony and suffering. Who's to say that Andreth's words are more sad than Finrod's? Or that Frodo's more so than Galadriel's? What about the reply of the messengers of Aman to the lament of the Numenoreans?

I need to correct myself . I have realised there was an error at the end of my last post. The Vanyar did return to Middle Earth, at the end of the First Age, in the War of Wrath (it was Ingwe who didn't return). It is possible however that their contact with Men there was limited at best; afterwards, it is also true that the Elves were "if not commanded, sternly counselled" to return to the west. The main repository of knowledge of Aman in Middle Earth resided with the last exiles, who were, I suppose, most at contact with the Numenoreans (at least after their return to the shores of M-E). I will also mention that Silmarillion notes that the Vanyar held in their lore the response of Feanor to The prophecy of the north, so there was at least one event concerning the Vanyar that later reached M-E, after the exile of the noldor (I know, this particular situation isn't a point for my position ).

Originally Posted by davem

Hence in their case evil was a consequence of their mortality, not a cause of it.

I disagree; Numenor was not free from corruption, in Arda only Aman was (at best). Numenoreans were still Men, although elevated. All Men had a corrupted idea of death - on behalf of Melkor. Cf. the words of Pengolod to AElfwine:

Originally Posted by Of the begining of days, Silmarillion

Death is their fate, the gift of Iluvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy. But Melkor has cast his shadow upon it, and confounded it with darkness, and brought forth evil out of good, and fear out of hope.