[Boromir88]

Raynor:

But this is a fundamental battle between good and evil and Tolkien acknowledges it so; subtlety and shades doesn't make it any less so.

LOTR has been labelled as a fight of 'good and evil' for a long time, and it's a label I've never fully agreed with. Sure there is the figure of 'Evil' and the side of 'Good' but let's not forget the grey areas.

Some reviewers have called the whole thing simple-minded, just a plain fight between Good and Evil, with all the good just good, and the bad just bad. Pardonable, perhaps (though at least Boromir has been overlooked) in people in a hurry, and with only fragment to read, and, of course, without the earlier written but unpublished Elvish histories. But the Elves are not wholly good or in the right…In their way the Men of Gondor were similar: a withering people whose only ‘hallows’ were their tombs. But in any case this is a tale about a war, and if war is allowed (at least as a topic and a setting) it is not much good complaining that all the people on one side are against those on the other. Not that I have made even this issue quite so simple: there are Saruman, and Denethor, and Boromir; and there are treacheries and strife even among the Orcs.~Letter dated 25 September 1954

I wonder if Tolkien was in some way influenced by what he wrote in Letter 66

remarking that in WWII there were many orcs on both sides:
For we are attempting to conquer Sauron with the Ring. And we shall (it seems) succeed.But the penalty is, as you will know, to breed new Saurons, and slowly turn men and elves into Orcs. Not that in real life things are so clear cut as in a story, and we started out with a great many Orcs on our side..

There is good and there is evil...but it's not so easy as a battle of good vs. evil...it is also a battle of good vs. good (evil) and evil vs. evil (good). Sorry...I can't think of a better way of putting it. Anyway as an example...

Denethor was a strong opposer to Sauron, he hated Sauron and he wanted to defeat Sauron. However, as Tolkien remarks, Denethor became corrupted by politics and had he survived the War of the Ring he would have ruled 'as a tyrant.' Denethor opposing Sauron...does that make him automatically good? No, as I don't think a 'tyrant' is something that would be good. LOTR can't be so easily pigeon-holed as 'good vs. evil' there is a what I like to refer to as a 'grey area.'

I disagree. Tolkien referrs to him as persisten in wickedness, refusing chances of repentance and damnable. Therefore, he is responsible.

And no one has yet refuted that murder was something Smeagol was capable of doing before coming across the Ring. Just because he is described in pretty bad light doesn't mean Smeagol would have become a murderer. Also, Gollum nearly was redeemed, yet Sam ruined that chance (albeit unintentionally)...and yes I will repeat my past point, it just goes to show that even good people (like Sam) can make bad decisions that have bad repercussions (in this case it ruined Gollum's last chance of redemption) eventhough he had no intention to do so.

If at the root of it, or if the major part of it, was the ring's power, Saruon could have taken control of him. It was not so.

Sauron (or more specifically the Ring) did get control over Smeagol. So much control and power over Smeagol that his fate became bound to the Ring's.

Sauce:

And I also greatly resent the suggestion that my intepretation of a fictional tale is somehow akin to the lynch mob mentality that leads to the victimisation of those who are suspected of being paedophiles or (in the past) of being witches on scant evidence.

I brought up the witch hunt...so I'm taking it as I am one of the people you are addressing here? I think you've read too deeply into things. The witch hunt was an example of what hysteria could cause. It was an example that 'rumours' and 'tales' don't mean 'truth' and what overwhelming fear can do to people and the 'tales' that come from it. It serves as an example that reminds me of the Woodsmen tales that have been infamously talked about in this thread. In absolutely no way was I making any remarks towards your posts (which I have found to be full of insight).

Of course debates get out of hand and a bit heated...I get into it more than what's good for me; and I think I can say everyone here at one point or another has been in some touchy topic debates. But let's not wave a red flag here, get frustrated and just say 'I'm done.' A thread like this that has gone through a wealth of information, some really thought provoking questions pertaining to real life is something I've been waiting for a long time! Where does any quality discussion get if everyone just says 'I quit?' I fail to see what's so frustrating about this thread...just sit back, read through, relax, and share your input. There's no need to get bent out of shape and call it quits.