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Old 05-03-2007, 06:07 AM   #3
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
The Eye

Quote:
Originally Posted by narfforc
P.S Just read The Council of Elrond, it states that the Nine are with The Nazgul, (The Nine the Nazgul keep states Gandalf).
Ah! Really thanks for that one, narfforc. Because it is, I believe, the only place where there is stated that the Nazgul indeed have the Rings. This is what I really thought strange: even when Frodo has the Ring on, there isn't mentioned, for example, that "he saw a terrible figure of a fallen King, who wore a ring on his finger".

Of course, if someone wanted to use it, the claim of Gandalf that the Nazgul keep the Nine could be contested with Galadriel's words to Frodo. We might say Gandalf and Galadriel could both have the same authority and knowledge on that subject - it would be probably best to hear Saruman's opinion on this, because he was an expert on the Rings, as Gandalf says. Galadriel's statement seems to oppose the quoted:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror of Galadriel
You saw the Eye of him that holds the Seven and the Nine.
This implies that Sauron himself has the Nine - though, of course, this is quite literal explanation. In the context however, it is quite probable that Galadriel means "Sauron has power over the Seven and the Nine" (not to mention he even doesn't have all of the Seven, only three of them) in contrast to the Three, which remain hidden and unstained.

On the other hand, the subject now moves to the line of "what the heck now happened with the Rings at the beginning of the 3rd age?" This has something to do with the incorporalness of the Ringwraith, and what exactly they can do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Many Meetings
"I know," said Frodo. "They were terrible to behold! But why could we all see their horses?"
"Because they are real horses; just as the black robes are real robes that they wear to give shape to their nothingness when they have dealings with the living."
The nazgul have real horses, real clothes, and of course, real rings. They can use the corporeal items even though they are incorporeal themselves. We could presume, if a Nazgul was not completely killed, but just lost his robes and equipment e.g. in the Bruinen flood, he would just look around and collect his sword&dagger&the Ring and then leave to purchase some new clothes. But the situation at the end of the 2nd Age is somewhat different: Sauron was "dead", the Nazgul disappeared - and what of the Rings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by narfforc
I believe that Legolas shot the winged steed and not the Ringwraith, as an arrow would not do any damage to a Nazgul.
Of course, of course - but they fell from the sky, that's what I'm talking about, I didn't say it correctly. The creature fell down to the ground and the Ringwraith as well. Now, you know, I can easily imagine an incorporeal nazgul parachutist crawling on the riverbank and searching for his Ring...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien
But maybe the Witch-King's Ring was destroyed (or it vanished just like the nazgűl himself) when he was killed...
Maybe. Or maybe there is a skipped passage in the book and there was something more sinister behind Eomer's cry "Death, death take us all..."

Once again, really thanks for your contributions to this topic to both of you! And I'm awaiting if anyone else has anything to say to this.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
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