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Old 05-03-2007, 01:40 PM   #48
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man
Faulty logic, as Rikae has pointed out. This is akin to saying that because there are taxis in both London and New York, the Statue of Liberty must exist in London.
No - the only fault in logic is the assumption that humans in Tolkien's world are no different to humans in the primary world. This is assuming that which is to be proved. My point is that we can assume no such thing. In Tolkien's world some humans live for over 200 years, & have enhanced physical powers (Aragorn), or heightened instincts/insight (Faramir). There are differences between Men in M-e & Men in our world.

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I would ask you, in turn, where in any of Tolkien's writings there is anything which would definitively rule out the existence of homosexuality in M-e (or even make it improbable).
This question cannot be reduced to 'Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' arguments. As I stated, Tolkien has created hundreds of characters, & not one can be interpreted as homosexual. In fact, all can either be interpreted as either asexual or heterosexual. Simply, I would ask - why not? As I stated, the argument that Homosexuality existed in Tolkien's world but he chose not to refer to it is far less logical than the argument that he did not mention it because, in his world, it did not exist. I suppose one could argue that there were homosexual characters in Tolkien's world, but they were so insignificant that they did not merit any mention - but I think that's actually more insulting...

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The question is the same for me. And I come to the conclusion that there is no evidence that he excluded it.
Well, the 'evidence' is that he did not ever, even in the vaguest way, ever mention it.

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Yet the other examples of the occurence of sexuality in Tolkien's works that you give make it clear that, for humans, sexuality was not simply about procreation. Clearly, therefore, human sexuality may not be equated with Elvish sexuality.
Which is not evidence for the existence of homosexuality in M-e.

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Rikae
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Originally Posted by Davem
Sexual orientation is not equivalent to going to the lavatory. One assumes the latter exists because it is a biological function. We know the characters ate, therefore we assume they excreted waste. Sexual orientation is psychological/genetic.
Genetics are part of biology, and so (arguably) is psychology.
Ok, I should have stated that excretion is a
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necessary
biological function, whereas, in Tolkien's world, homosexuality is not - clearly, as it doesn't exist there.
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