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Old 05-24-2007, 11:44 AM   #3
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleg Cuthalion
Good question, but I think I'd say they are the "universal" or Christian virtues, in this case given Tolkien’s Catholic faith they would most likey have to be. (Darn this is gona get complicated). I would highly doubt that they anything to do with say for example Buddhist virtues
I think you are right in this. It is most likely that many, if not all, the prized virtues stream from Tolkien's own European/Aristotelian/Catholic viewpoint. But I wanted to look at this from the point, let's say, if you take Middle-earth as one separate culture (imagine it, for example, existing on our Earth on some continent apart from Europe, Asia, America... so as one external to them, to get the proper impression), independant on the other cultures, yet sharing some of the others' viewpoints. As there are several different cultures on Earth, some of them have still some things in common. E.g. if I pick from what you quoted, for example right third there is "Right Speech", which corresponds more or less with Judeo-Christian "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (and others) So, if for example these two cultures have this in common, what does Middle-Earth have in common with some other culture?

Okay, so why not start with the "classic" as you brought it here (I hope I got right how they are called in English.):

σωφροσύνη (moderation)
φρόνησις ([practical] wisdom, prudence - in the original meaning of the word)
ανδρεία (bravery, fortitude)
δικαιοσύνη (justice - in the personal meaning)


Can you name any passage, show where these are mentioned in Tolkien's books (or probably not named explicitely, but shown on some example. And are they just valued, or desirable? Any evidence on that? And does it differ in places/cultures - for example, does it affect Dwarves as well as Elves? I'm not speaking of Orcs now, though even here it might be interesting - maybe even more...)
Could you subscribe each of these to some person? Could you name someone who would be a "good representative" for one of them? Could you find someone who is a "good representative" to all of them?

(We might widen the range of virtues later.)
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