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Originally Posted by davem
Clearly the 'dinner' Noakes is referring to is 'second' dinner.
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Hmmm...and what happened to 'supper', another one of your unshakeable social institutions? Or are you now saying that supper is not part of the equation? Would Old Noakes (a rustic by speech pathology) be inclined or be able to afford 'second dinner', or would he be of Yorkshire persuasion and eschew the term 'dinner' (which is 'lunch') and instead use 'supper' (which is 'dinner')? By your use of the word 'clearly' you are trying to impose and absolute on something that is not clear-cut in the least; in fact, as with many discussions I've had regarding Tolkien over the last few decades, one can say that Tolkien emulates the Elves: he says both yes and no.
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Originally Posted by davem
Even Pippin is not averse to using the traditional term for the mid-day meal:
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Imagine that, Pippin using 'lunch ' and 'dinner' synonymously (just as if it didn't matter to him in the least). Perhaps it didn't matter in the least to Tolkien as well. Actually, the more quotes I read, the more he seems to be disinclined to give an official designation to anything but breakfast.
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Originally Posted by davem
What this clearly shows is that 'lunch' is not even the only way that middle class Hobbits refer to the mid-day meal. They will as happily say 'dinner'. What we see, therefore, is that the mass of Hobbits call the mid-day meal 'dinner'. A couple of middle class dandies among them use the affected term 'lunch'. All other uses of 'lunch' are down to the narrator/translator.
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Again, your attempt to use absolutes is untenable, just as implying that the term 'lunch' is an upper-class term is unsupportable. It is obvious to me they are interchangeable, just as, by your own designation, 'dinner' and 'supper' are interchangeable. An upper class Hobbit uses lunch and dinner synonymously (surprising that a 'middle-class dandie' would deign to use a term below his station), and a lower class Hobbit uses dinner in place of what clearly should be supper (which would be absolutely unacceptable in Yorkshire).
As far as 'lunch' being used often by the narrator/translator, just whom do you think that is, exactly? My guess would be the author, Tolkien, hadn't the slighest concern over using the term 'lunch' in any applicable situation.