[Raynor]

Originally Posted by davem

'What you're doing will make me even more glorious!' - which could be taken as encouragement from a certain perspective

That certain perspective, in which a God encourages someone to persevere in evil, could not, in my opinion, be further from Tolkien's world. And there is no such mention in Eru's words:

Originally Posted by Ainulindale

And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory.

If, in the end, as I said previously, the evil of Melkor brings about good, it is only due to Eru, without whom it would not be possible. What Eru is talking about here is the final impotence of evil, or of any action set against Eru.

In the end one cannot, as supreme creator, give one's Children free will & then object to the way they use it.

Why? What would impede the supreme creator to do that?

Even his desire to reduce the creation to 'chaos' may have been down to his belief that Chaos was a superior form to order.

There is hardly any evidence that Melkor sought to improve creation, that is, at least in the final stages of his madness, when he would have likely turned all creation into the chaos you mentioned. And regardless of what one believes it is right, if it goes against the greater good, and if it endangers it, it cannot be possibly tolerated. This "anything goes" argument is simply incongruent with morality.

The fact is we don't have Morgoth's side of the story, & don't know his real motivation- we have his enemies' interpretation of his motives.

Does that imply that Melkor could be the most misunderstood hero? That our judgment is clouded by the tortures, corruptions and destructions he perpetrated and we can't objectively judge him from a moral point of view?

He may well have honestly believed that his vision was superior. One would have to be able to prove that Eru's (& by extension the Valar's) vision was 'superior' in some objective sense.

I already gave this quote (in this thread, and in other occasions when we debated):

Originally Posted by Of the severance of marriage, HoME X

... trust in Eru the Lord everlasting, that he is good, and that his works shall all end in good. This the Marrer hath denied, and in this denial is the root of evil, and its end is in despair.

Denying that Eru is good is the root of evil, according to Manwe. Similar interpretations can be found in the letters, and, implicitly, in all Tolkien's work.

'Eru was the supreme being & therefore must be right' is simply a 'Might=right' argument.

Might, and wisdom, and supreme goodness, etc...

And in the end, for me, Tolkien 's greatest works are the ones where Eru & the Valar are very much in the background & can be safely ignored - TH, LotR, CoH.

I for one choose not to ignore Bilbo being meant to find the One Ring, Gandalf returning from beyond Creation with increased powers and Gollum falling. As you and I know from past debates, either in the works, or in the letters, these are implied/stated to be the works of Eru.