[MatthewM]

Formendacil, if I have given a higher air to the way you see Boromir, I am satisfied. And you're right- everyone sees Tolkien's world in their own way. Like Boromir88 said, that is part of what makes these books so amazing.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I just don't consider it to be big deal when compared to traits and personality...as for me, thats what I think about the most when it comes to portrayal. Did Bean and Jackson get Boromir's mannerisms and personality correct? As its those things which 'bring the character to life on screen', for me, where somebody else may be different and place their emphasis on...say Boromir's appearance.

I put a much higher emphasis on appearance, I always have. Personality and mannerisms are just as important to me...because for me if an actor is playing the part (from book to movie) well, yet fails to coincide with the book in appearance (and vice versa) I can't see the portrayal as authentic as some might.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I see it as rather childish because he's angry (maybe about having to go through Moria?) and so he just throws in a giant rock.

Hm, I actually forgot that Boromir says that before he throws the stone into the water. I suppose it was a bit childish then, yet I can understand his anger as he did not want to enter Moria, and the whole Company was backing some wizard who couldn't open a door, and who his father wasn't too sure of.

Speaking of childish, and personality and mannerisms, I seem to have forgotten one of the worst scenes PJ ever filmed concerning Boromir and his personality, and this scene is right up there in filth with the EE Osgiliath scene...I can't believe I forgot to mention it sooner. Now here is an example of why movie Boromir is childish, far more childish than anyone could say about book Boromir- Aragorn is sitting peacefully in a part of Rivendell, where there is a huge moral depicting the defeat of Sauron during the Second Age, when Isildur cut the Ring off Sauron's hand. Not far away stands a statue that holds the Shards of Narsil. Boromir enters, says nothing to Aragorn, actually picks up the broken hilt, traces his finger across it while talking to himself- "The blade that cut the Ring..." (while almost reinacting what happened), then cutting his finger on it by accident ("still sharp...") he finally notices that Aragorn has been staring him down. Boromir looks with fear at Aragorn, and concludes with "but no more than a broken hilt". With that, Boromir hastily puts the hilt back on its resting place, and it falls down and clangs an obnoxious noise. Boromir turns his head, looks at it- not giving a hoot less, and walks away.

Talk about childish...I rest my case in saying that this movie Boromir, in this scene especially, can not even compare to book Boromir. There is no lordliness, as we know, in Bean, and there is absolutely no kindliness in this scene. Instead there is complete disrespect to Boromir's own country (which we know would never have happened in the books) and complete disrespect to Boromir's character alone. In fact, this scene is so demoralizing to Boromir's character as is the Osgiliath scene that I do not even consider either of them to be portrayal's of Boromir- I can't even give them the credit of being PJ's Boromir in his more finer scenes.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would too, and Boromir being the leader that he was back in Gondor it's more understandable that he would be the one objecting, since he was used to the leadership role and getting things done his way. However, I think its the way he reacts (like he does at the Gates of Moria)...it seems a lot like frustration; and rather like a tantrem. Instead of just objecting and saying 'I don't think this is a good idea' I think it's just the way I read the remark...It reminds me of something I would do as a kid, when I didn't want to go some where...'If dad's not going I don't have to either!.'

I don't see any sort of tantrem in Boromir's words (concering the direction of the Nine Walkers after Moria), perhaps a bit of frustration because no one has really been listening to his opinion concerning where The Fellowship should go. I still can't see this disagreeing as childish, as he was so accustomed to giving orders and already weary from what he heard in Gondor (about Lorien)- but I'm sure everyone reads the remarks differently.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

'But the Enemy holds the eastern bank,' objected Boromir. 'And even if you pass the Gates of Argonath and come unmolested to the Tindrock, what will you do then? Leap down the Falls and land in the marshes?'~The Great River

I think this is both sarcastic and ironic. Sarcastic because Boromir doesn't agree with the path Aragorn wants to take and he's making some little jabs at it. Ironic because it is Boromir who arguably goes 'leaping down the falls' into 'the marshes.'

Nice catch, I love Boromir's sarcasm here. I've never picked up on that irony- again, nice catch.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Aye, sorry about that little confusion. I was saying that I liked that part of the movie with Boromir and I went on to explain growth in their relationship. Sorry, if I misunderstood but I thought you were saying Boromir acting 'paranoid' about Aragorn's claim was a wrong portrayal.

A misunderstanding it was! No worries!

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Yes, it was Eomer's opinion, but I think we can take it to be true. As Eomer says he had seen Boromir before, and in seeing Boromir he seemed more like the 'swift sons of Eorl' than those 'grave men in Gondor.' And eventhough Boromir was from Gondor, Eomer seperates him from the 'grave men of Gondor.' Also, I think his passion for Gondor (and for Gondor's victory) shows that he was not like the typical 'grave' men of his country.

I still think it's just Eomer's opinion, just because, like Boromir (to Gondor), Eomer was tremendously devoted to Rohan and I can see how he would push his patriotism of "the swift sons of Eorl" to one of the few Gondorians Eomer (most likely) knew- Gondor's greatest. I also see Eomer's words as a bit of a generalization- he's lumping all men of Gondor as grave, and all of Rohan swift. Obviously, there are grave men and swift men in both countries. I do agree of course with Eomer's praise of Boromir and his kind words about him, I just don't take his "more like to the swift sons of Eorl" speel seriously.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And I agree with you about the smile...I'll have to watch the scene again (as I haven't seen the movie in a little while). But I do vaguely remember Boromir expressing a certain hapiness/peacefulness before he dies. I'll take your word that he doesn't smile, but Aragorn does lay Boromir's sword in his hand and Boromir brings it to his chest...then I think Aragorn kisses him on the forehead, which I think all shows the final end of Boromir quite well.

The 'smile' shows Boromir's end is a peaceful one, and I think this is still shown in the movies...the smile probably would have been easier and better though

I'm pretty sure when movie Boromir says his last lines "I would have followed you..." he smiles a little bit, but it wasn't the same as I picture it in the book, one because the very last thing Boromir does in the book was smile, not say the line "my king". Yes quite knitpicky, I know, but very vital in my opinion. The smile is the resolution from Boromir's mistake and overwhelming pride he displayed while trying to wrestle the Ring from Frodo, and the smile is, in my opinion, what ties into one of the most beautiful lines in all of the book-

"But in Gondor in after-days it long was said that the elven-boat rode the falls and the foaming pool, and bore him down through Osgiliath, and past the many mouths of Anduin, out into the Great Sea at night under the stars." - The Departure of Boromir

For me this confirms 100% that through his last defense of the hobbits, Boromir was forgiven, not only by himself, but by the higher powers of Middle-earth.

Like you said, in the movie they could have done it much better.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So, now that I look at it, I think the main disagreement comes with just how we think of 'portrayal.' Particularly around Boromir's death scene. Eventhough if Jackson alters the scene and changes it, I think the message is still there. I get the same feeling watching it on screen as I did reading the books, Jackson just shows the 'final stand' differently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is your argument then that the way Jackson portrays the scene...although delivers the same feelings, it doesn't show Boromir's strength and bravery to the extent the books do with Boromir's death? Therefor, the portrayal, allthough isn't wrong, it's not as good as it could have been?

Exactly.

So, although we disagree on certain aspects, I think we agree on a lot as well. It has been good having this discussion!