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Originally Posted by Sauron the White

You are good at avoiding boxing yourself into a corner. A tip of the hat to you.

Round rooms assure the desired result.

I do not think we are talking about changing your diet to include worms or converting you to the wonders of astrology. Nor do I want children to be introduced to painful experiences. So lets get beyond those easy things.

Surely. My point is that biases exist, are helpful for survival, and that we all have them, and that the bias may or not be logically reasoned.

I do think that there is a bias here - or even a stronger prejudice - against Jackson and his films.

Okay. I'll agree. A certain set of all the posting members here do not like the Jackson films. So? A set of the same do not like going to the cinema, would rather be along with a book than at a pub, and can type much faster in a nonnative language than I can in my own. Is that not their right to be thus? And just how many are in any set? And of those, how many actively post in the same threads in which you participate?

Its not enough to say that is a right and thats just the way this community is constituted and thats the charm that makes you all so darn appealing.

But of course. I'm not saying that it's right, but that it what we observe.

Without beating this to death --- okay - at the risk of beating this to death --- I do feel that there is a qualitative difference between some here who have issues with problems of the films as films and those who are simply head over heels in love with the books and will not even look at anything that smacks of Tolkien infidelity. If that sounds silly it was partly meant to. Partly.

We are in total agreement. And then...If you could talk them into loving Jackson, or even merely appreciating his films, then I'll have to have you over the house to talk my kids into wearing the clothing that I'd rather have them in, heartily desiring what I put in front of them for dinner and going to bed at a reasonable hour.

I think that we're seeing this from the same view, but you see it as an 'you're either fully with us or against us' set whereas I see it as more of a continuum. On the sides we get the love books/movies to the exclusion of all else, and with these your arguments are moot. There are those not on the extremes that are warmer or cooler to the books/movies and so may be more receptive to what you write. But that assumes that they even care.

Classical bell curve, albeit I'm guessing that the mean is skewed somewhat closer to the books.

There seems to be some kind of litmus test among the literary circle of Tolkien and a hatred of the movies seems to be part of that.

You see that. Do others? Do you think that those who do not like the movies, for whatever reason - prejudice, bias, snobbery, etc - are part of some cliche?

I realize that very intelligent people within this community have told me that there are broad differences of opinion on many things within the Tolkien literary community but for some reason on this site it keeps coming up with the same number over and over again.

I'm not sure what that means. Are you saying that despite post after posting of persons demonstrating that they wanted to like the movies, tried to like the movies, like parts of the movies, you still think that its a small small minority that sees things anywhere to what you would consider normal? Is it data or your perception? I don't mean to be constantly questioning you (well, okay, I do, but that's me), but I'm always suspect when global claims are made. My wife does not post here, and I've offered her as an outlier. What of her criticism? If she posted here, would you think that she was a book snob a priori?

I do feel that it is imortant to overcome ones biases when it comes to things other than eating worms, astrology and inflicting harm upon children. I promise you that an increased appreciation of even one more scene in the Jackson movies will not damage a single child... or worm for that matter.

One has to work at overcoming biases, and you might consider that this issue isn't hot on everyone's list. To accept something without evidence - PJ made wonderous films - would be just as bad as knowing that he made complete garbage without ever viewing them. Can't argue with faith/belief, but can reason with reason.

You just may gain something by it. As we all can. Myself included by listening and appreciating the other viewpoint.

That's why I signed myself up to write the SbS. And that's why I both like and dislike the movies. They were okay, but could have been so much better. Lacking the wit to be truly creative I can pick up my book and see another way to 'let Theoden know that the Uruks approach.'