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Old 05-08-2003, 07:57 AM   #5
davem
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Sting

Well, OK, pity is never far from Turin's heart, but generally his pity is directed at his own victims! ('Pity' spelt 'Oops!)
I can't help feeling that what we see in Hurin's family is the seed of what sprouted in Numenor. Its ofermod, overweening/reckless pride (see the essay in Tolkien's Legendarium, Turin's Ofermod).
Pride is the central motivation of the deeds of Hurin, Turin & Morwen, less so, but still present in Nienor.
Maybe it was their pride that enabled them to survive so long, but considering what they did with the time they had, maybe it would have been better for them if they hadn't lived as long as they did.
I think the core issue Tolkien is exploring is the difference between pride & ofermod, natural, necessary, self respect & hubris. The whole family pushed PRIDE to such an extreme it destroyed them. Turin's constant desire to take charge in every situation, when he knows he's been 'cursed' by Morgoth, when every time he's had power he's brought about disaster, including the death of people he loves, & yet, every time he gets the opportunity, he's again taking over. He never learns. That's his curse, bloody minded stubborness, refusal to learn what a proud idiot he actually is. That doesn't mean his story isn't a great tragedy - it is, but maybe mainly because its self inflicted. He uses the cop out 'the 'devil' made me do it - it wasn't me that killed those people, it was Morgoth. Don't blame me, its this curse!' But knowing he was cursed, that everything he did would be corrupted, why did he just go on trying to take over.
Er, this has become a rant about Turin. Sorry, completely off thread.
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