[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Beanamir of Gondor

I think the vital problem with the Faramir-in-the-Fellowship argument is that it seems to stem from the films, in particular a flashback scene in TTT:EE.

What a horrid and unneccessary scene. The "Faramir in Fellowship" argument actually does not stem from the films, and is in the book-

“Therefore my brother, seeing how desperate was our need, was eager to heed the dream and seek for Imladris; but since the way was full of doubt and danger, I took the journey upon myself. Loth was my father to give me leave, and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.” (The Fellowship of the Ring, The Council of Elrond)

Originally Posted by Beanamir

The crucial question we're not asking is why Book!Faramir would ever have been sent to Rivendell in the first place. Boromir was the elder son, the favorite of his father, and when Gondor was summoned to the council, Boromir would have been Denethor's first choice, hands down.

The Council of Elrond was not "summoned", if I am correct. Boromir travelled to Imladris to seek the meaning of a riddle, Legolas was there to inform Rivendell of Gollum's escape, etc. It was fate that brought the companions together in Council to address the urgency of such a problem as The One Ring. So Gondor wasn't summoned, and Boromir's words I cited from the Council say it all. It was against Denethor's wish that Boromir went to Rivendell.

Originally Posted by Beanamir

If Movie!Faramir had indeed been in the Fellowship (which would mean that he had been granted trust by his father, and therefore would have been much more self-confident even than Boromir), I get this feeling that he would have taken on an Aragorn-like role: he would have fully recognized his temptation by the Ring, and in the same breath rejected it.

I don't think Faramir would have been self-confident. Not more than Boromir. I also think that you might be right with the Aragorn like role if you were talking about Book Faramir. But Movie Faramir? I can't see that.

Originally Posted by Azaelia

Benamir, what you say is very true... I agree with you that there is no chance at all that Faramir would have been sent to Rivendell, just based upon the cultural norms, and also on Denethor as a character. However, it's fun to think about anyway, and I do think it is notable that Fate or some higher power chose Faramir for the job. He was given the vision, not Boromir.

It is apparent that there was actually a good chance that Faramir would have been sent to Rivendell. If Boromir did not want to take the journey in Faramir's stead, he would have stayed in Gondor. Boromir wanted to go to Rivendell out of protection for his brother.

Also it is untrue that Boromir was not given the vision. The dream came once to him-

“In that dream I thought the eastern sky grew dark and there was a growing thunder, but in the West a pale light lingered, and out of it I heard a voice, remote but clear, crying...” (The Council of Elrond)

Originally Posted by Azaelia

He's probably stronger in battle than Faramir

Probably? Oh no, he WAS much stronger than Faramir. As Faramir explains in The Two Towers-

“Alas that ever he went on that errand! I should have been chosen by my father and the elders, but he put himself forward, as being the older and the hardier (both true), and he would not be stayed.”

As I have said before, if Faramir went in Boromir's stead, the mission would have failed. The Company wouldn't have even made it out of Caradhras if not for Boromir and his strength, as well as his suggestion of taking wood on the mountain for fire.