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Old 06-09-2008, 04:55 AM   #21
skip spence
shadow of a doubt
 
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skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.skip spence is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morthoron View Post
A cardinal sin perhaps, but not unthinkable. Tolkien softened his stance on Eol raping Aredhel, editing that section to read that perhaps she was a little willing *Wink, wink, nudge, nudge*, but I believe rape was the outcome in the 1st draft. Had Maeglin's plans succeeded, he would have forcibly married his cousin (and forced marriage can be construed as rape). As far as Celegorm, he had every intention of forcibly marrying Luthien and deludedly thought such a match would gain Thingol's allegiance (like that would have turned out well!)
Still I must defend poor old Celeborn in as much as to say he'd never rape Luthien. I think he had great desire for her, perhaps even love, and that his motives were not entirely political. Actually, his behaviour does sort of imply he was a fool in love or, at the very least, just a plain fool. Like you said, the whole thing was bound to end in disaster had he succeded in abducting her and killing his rival. Thingol would have gone to war with all his men if he thought his daugther was being mistreated.

The text I was refering to when I said rape was unthinkable is, if I'm not mistaken, "Laws and Customs of the Eldar". I can't check up any quotes now as I'm at work (not working mind you) now. Here I believe we are told that no crimes of passion are ever recorded among the Eldar and that rape of an elfwoman would be unthinkable. She would rather give up her physical life than to submit to anything of the kind, and elves can of course "die" of free will like Miriel, wife of Finwe, did. I also remember reading about Eöl and Aredhel and how he took her for wife "by force". I think Tolkien changed that because he wasn't happy with it, not because it was a sensitive issue. The elves tend to get "better" in T's later writings. Compare for example with what a scoundrel Thingol was in earlier versions of the tales, and his almost unpeccable behaviour in CoH.

As for Celebrimbor, I agree with whoever it was who said he most likely partook in the first Kinslaying. Of this, one can not know for sure however.
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Last edited by skip spence; 06-09-2008 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Added a few lines and fixed a few typos.
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