View Single Post
Old 06-29-2008, 08:34 AM   #16
Morthoron
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
 
Morthoron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mansun View Post
The views of Gandalf on Hobbits from the Shire in general, and the reluctance of the Elves to welcome other races within their realm, suggested some evidence of a class divide in Middle Earth. Even Rohan was seen as a poorer and less mighty a country than it's neighbour, Gondor.
Class has nothing to do with what you are talking about in most cases.

Gandalf can be condescending, patrician or elitist to anyone he chooses, Mansun. He is neither a different class, nor a different race, he is an elemental, angelic being in a humanoid form (a Maia).

Again, with Elves there may be views of a racial (or genus) superiority, but it is not a matter of class, and the reasons they no longer have commerce with other races does not necessarily impute they feel racially superior. The elves were withdrawing from the world (from the Now or Present you might say), and retreating into the Past Perfect. With the aid of the Elven Rings they created artifical paradises at Rivendell and Lothlorien (but let it be said that the Last Homely House always welcomed wayfarers of good will if they could find the correct paths). The Silvan Elves under Thranduil traded regularly with the men of Laketown, and there was no imputation of superiority (they even aided Laketown when it was destroyed by Smaug).

Regarding Gondor and Rohan, there was originally a vow of vassalage between the leaders of both lands (the Oath Of Eorl), but almost all the actual fealty and bonds of vassalage had long since been suspended by the time of the War of the Ring. Did Gondorions feel superior to the Rohirrim? Again, it would not be a 'class-centric' view, but rather a national egoism or racial pride (of Numenor), and except for some disparaging remarks by Denethor (who was rather disparaging to everyone, even his own son), there is no evidence of it among other Gondorions toward the Rohirrim in the books.

The closest one gets to actual class warfare or animosity is between the Dunlenders and the Rohirrim (rather like the oppressed Celts against the Romano-Britons, or the Anglo-Saxons and the Normans). Because we know far more about the Shire than any other realm, we have a fairly good idea of society and class structure among the Hobbits (the Victorian or Edwardian relationship between Sam and Frodo being the most pronounced), the views of Hobbiton regarding the queer folk of The Marish, and the Squires of the Brandybucks and Tooks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bêthberry
Did Dwarves ever hold fealty to the Elves? I had always assumed they were thoroughly independent. Certainly the Appendix "Durin's Folk" speaks only of the awakening of Durin's people and their coming to Azanulbizar, and the pure line of the dwarven monarchy.
No, I can't recall any such bonds of fealty. The Elves and the Dwarves were always distinct and separate (sometimes malevolently so), even when they had great friendship such as arose between Hollin and Moria.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

Last edited by Morthoron; 06-29-2008 at 08:54 AM.
Morthoron is offline   Reply With Quote