[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Sarcasm was the intention here, not a valid suggestion on Gandalf's part. In any case, sending the Ring into the Great Sea would have been one of the better options.

Throwing the One Ring into the Sea of Belegaer would be as daft as giving it back to Gollum and hope he could hide it another century or two. The Ring was in the hands of the Free Folk (a million to one shot as it was) and it had to be destroyed, not left to chance. Had the Ring not been destroyed when it was, then Sauron would have won by default, as he had more than ample forces to win without the Ring. Gondor and Rohan would have been destroyed, and Lothlorien and Rivendell would have eventually fallen as well. Sauron then could look for the Ring without any interference (and being immortal, he had plenty of time).

Originally Posted by Mansun

Gandalf: Hush! Evil things do not come into this valley, but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor, whose power is again stretching out over the world! We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark.


What exactly was Gandalf afraid of here? Did he believe the Great Eye could reach Rivendell? Was he or others that dwelt there afraid to hear the same of Sauron? Or was Gandalf just self-centred all the time, thinking he governs everyone else's lives?

The Hobbits really had no reckoning about the true power of Sauron. Gandalf, as both a leader and father-figure to the young hobbits, had every right to put Pippin in his place.

Originally Posted by Mansun

Did Gandalf not make light-hearted comments of the gentle treatment given by Sauron to prisoners in the Dark Tower in The White Rider?

"But let us not darken our hearts by imagining the trial of their gentle loyalty in the Dark Tower."

You are taking the above quote completely out of context, or perhaps you are merely misreading the intent. There is nothing light-hearted about it, nor sarcastic; in fact, there is nothing but grave concern.

Originally Posted by Mansun

To me Gandalf did not want anyone to celebrate anything until the Ring was destroyed and Mordor overthrown permanently. He may have feared Sauron at all times, but in the comfort of Rivendell, where elves freely be merry and sing songs (sometimes overly merry ones), why did Gandalf overreact?

They were resting before a journey that might have taken all their lives. This was not some trivial comedic romp, and so boo-hoo the poor hobbits were prevented from making ignorant jests. There was no 'overreacting'. Gandalf was cautious, and well he should be; for who among those present had been in the pits of Dol Guldur? Who had seen Mordor up close? Who had studied the very nature of the Ring? None but Elrond had any such vast experience, and he too grew grave when Gandalf recited the Ring poem in Black Speech. You didn't see much slapstick from Elrond, did you?

Originally Posted by Mansun

All posters think, and the thoughts behind their thinking differ according to their own interpretation of the problem. It was slightly hypocritical of Gandalf, to my mind, since his intitial logic suggested no humour whatsoever is allowed linking with that of the Dark Tower.

Again, where exactly is this a laughing matter? The Fellowship was, for all intents and purposes, a potential suicide squad, and Gandalf knew it. The hobbits did not understand this (in fact, I'm not sure Merry and Pippin actually 'got it' until after Gandalf died).

Originally Posted by Mansun

Gandalf was not the lord of Rivendell, after all! Elrond was the master here. Would he have objected like this?

Elrond DID object when Gandalf spoke in Black Speech. If there was no reason for concern, why then would Elrond object? The Ring had been found, the Nazgul had been sent to retrieve it, and the Ringbearer was escaping to Rivendell. Rivendell may have been safe for the moment, but Elrond made it clear that the Ring could not stay there.

Originally Posted by Mansun

Do you think, in great anger, Gandalf could ever have lost control and beat the Hobbit?

No, he wouldn't (being a Maia enclosed in a corporeal manifestation, it seems he had some level of heavenly restraint). But given the tenor of your posts, I wouldn't be surprised if you believe he would.