[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

It is common for leading firms and organisations to set personaility tests which aim to identify Machiavelli and weed them out. So, whilst potentially useful in politics in a manipulative sense, I have no time for people who use evil tactics in today's society to get their way, and there is some evidence to suggest that Machiavelli are affiliated to a psychopathic mental disorder, one which affected Gollum, no doubt. Infact, Saruman and Denethor both went mad partly as a result of Machiavellenism thinking..

Direct references to what you are claiming, please; otherwise, I will have to consider your claims false. Having worked with many major corporations in implementing training and hiring procedures within customer service and human resource organizations, I have never heard of a "Machiavelli test" as you assert. In addition, I have never heard that there is any such mental disorder affiliated with reading or practicing precepts propounded by Machiavelli. If that were the case, then any number of current and past great politicians, world leaders, writers, philosophers and CEO's --from John Milton to Winston Churchill -- had this mental disorder.

Again, the need for direct references are essential when making such outrageous statements.

Originally Posted by Mansun

Sauron, of course would be a good political candidate on his record in the LOTR, as he excelled in almost all areas of government. To have built a fortress and countless armies on a massive scale which are almost unassailable in his own land is a memorable feat. His folly over not protecting the borders of Mordor more keenly, and not continuing to hunt for the Ring were his only downfalls that ruined his entire legacy. Sauron had re-emerged strong continuosly after every defeat, his empire lasting may thousands of years. For the reasons given above, though, I would not vote for him.

You are contradicting prior statements, like this one:

Building an army of orcs and wargs is an achievement? In my book, anyone who abandons the forces of Good for orcs is weak and is a freak.

Originally Posted by Mansun

Saruman's empire fell almost overnight. . . .

Your idea of 'overnight' is interesting. Define what you mean by overnight. Are you aware of how long Saruman was in Orthanc?