[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right. So, now, let me post on what had happened here meanwhile... One warning. There are things I say during the course of the post, which are commenting on the current situation as I read the thread, post by post, page by page. To get the completely updated stance of mine towards something, you have to read it all to the end. So, be careful before ripping some quotes of what I say here out of context. Some of the things I say (namely for example about Aganzir) are relativised later (though I am not deleting the original ones). You can at least see how my thoughts went.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I think we can make the obvious conclusion that we should not vote him as a representative in future - just to ensure his own sanity, health and safety, right?

No, no, no, why? Lommy, Nerwen is trying to turn you against me! Join me and together we may rule the galaxy... okay, okay, that will be certainly a wrong way to go

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Also, could you explain what you actually mean by "large front of support". I am aware that Brinn was considered innocent by a few people at the early stages, but I wouldn't call it a large front yet.

For me, voting for a representative by somebody who had hardly said anything at all is a large front. Thinking relatively here.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Part of the reason I chose you was because you unusually quiet; I was hoping that by putting you in a position of power I could draw you out more and get a better read of you early in the game.

Now, now. What the Republic of a nonsense is that? Agan posted two posts which contained about nothing, and she said plainly there that she posts little because she does not have time. She also said she won't probably have much time tomorrow. So, if you voted her to be a Rep in order to see her posting more - you are doing something illogical, aren't you? If you ever read her posts, for that's the only thing I could think of as logical reason for that. When you want to talk to somebody, and he tells you he is in work uninterruptedly since 8 AM till 11 AM, are you going to invite him for a coffee at 10 AM, hoping that it will give you a chance to talk to him? Does it make sense? Really, I don't know what to think of what you say. You make no sense at all.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I agree that a situation with only "generally trusted veterans" as reps is not nice, but for a different reason. I think it is not a favourable situation because, quoting Lommy,That I think is a real problem, not only because it enables quiet wolves to slip by, but also because it will lead to a not-so-enjoyable and not-so-sporty game.

Not-so-sporty! We have elected candidates, for Mod's sake. This is high politics. The people nominate elite leaders from their midst. The point of the Representatives position is to discard the endless debates of the people! Knowledge, Rule, Order: How many villages have ended on total chaos, unable to pick a Wolf, because of the weak and idle who have more hindered than helped the voting process? No time to be sporty! People can at last breathe freely, for they don't have to rely on the chaos of the masses! Let the wise, the responsible rule! People will realise that what the Representatives do is for their best! And if they don't, let us make them realise! Aiiiiiiiieeeeee!!!

Originally Posted by Greenie

One more thing - like Agan, I don't quite understand where these phrases like "great trust" and "large front of support" come from. I never said I had great trust in Brinniel - I think I said that she looks innocentish and is a sensible player or something along those lines. Don't know, but it looks like someone is trying to make small issues into big ones.

Again, cf. above - and I would say making somebody a Rep is a big deal just for itself. Remember that we have some seven or how many Reps who make the decisions for everybody. One seventh of the nation going for one party would be a large enough front of supporters for me (some 15% of the population). I was referring to the fact that a person was elected, not to the supporters themselves being many, but simply being enough to make this person a Rep.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

To Legate, why in Eru's name did you make the phantom your rep?

Well, perhaps you can pick it up together from my posts late yesterday before I went to sleep (i.e. before I voted him). But simply, by ellimination process, as I wanted one of the "strong" (read: independant etc., like we've been talking all the beginning of the game) players, there was nobody better to pick, and there was in the end Nogrod or him. And since Nog already had one vote, I decided to leave it more open - as I was assuming somebody would vote Nog too - which indeed somebody did, and I think even at about the same time when I cast my vote for tp. So, I wanted also rather bigger spread of people, as I was afraid that there would be just Nog of the people to whom I would really give my trust. I didn't want the representative board made of Brinniels whose election seemed as unclear to me as her profile this far, and Ilyas whom I don't know at all yet, etc. And still I was more inclined to vote somebody else rather than just to give Nog a vote, and presuming that more people would vote him, make him a Rep with more vote weight. And, I was fighting against it hard late in the Day, but I actually found out I started to like the phantom (don't let him read this, though), and like I said, of all people on the list (you can, I believe, look up somewhere some list of people whom I have considered voting for in the end), he seemed like the "man in his place" if he was elected.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I found only one in my post. I can't speak for Greenie but I wouldn't call her use of positive adjectives great trust, either. If we have to vote early and you know it, why on earth are you telling us later that we trusted her way too much given how much she had posted?
I find it worth noticing too that the first votes went to the same person, but I wouldn't call it great trust.

Seems to me catching upon very minor things. Gah.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Mostly that, at the time, everyone I wanted as a Rep already had two votes and everyone that had one vote was someone I didn't care to trust just yet. And I wanted to give my vote to someone who would use it responsibly, as you've shown you can do, in past games.

This actually looks innocent.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

"Mountain out of a molehill" much? And what do you mean by "not liking some of my posts"?

I don't know. Some of them. I need to look at them again, what in particular it was.

******An inner note*******
GREENIE seems even more innocent than before now, especially because of her "defense" of Lommy, which seemed logical. However, her - how was it? "thank you for clearing it up" which she said so friendly to everybody, first I believe Shasta and then to Agan (both page 8) seem a bit too friendly and nice. But in general, nothing wrong with her.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's not in vain that democracy has been called the most civil form of government!

You are wrong, Nogrod. Democracy is outdated. Now, let us... okay, okay, I am not going to start on that again

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

These suspicions seem fabricated to me. Which posts in particular didn't you like, and why?
Aganzir has been talking quite a bit toDay, so I'm entirely sure what you mean by "a vote likely to disappear." Had Aganzir been relatively quiet prior to the first DL? I can't remember. Maybe I'll check later.

(I am quoting the larger part of the post just for I have something to say to the other part of it as well, however, the first line is the main I am replying to - it refers to my words about Shasta having some posts I don't like.) Okay, since you are the second one to ask this, I am going to look them up right after I post this post. (And as for Aganzir, check. She said she's not going to be around, which was repeated by her, by me, whatever, just look up even this very post.)
BTW - related - there are moments when I think (no offense, Gwath) that some people just are not reading. When I want to comment on person A commenting on person B, first I should see to it that I also know what was the thing person B said (to which person A was replying). Gosh.

Originally Posted by Kath

Can I ask, what do the representatives actually want us to do? I mean obviously we can't vote but do you want to know who we would vote for if we could to help you make your decisions? Basically - do you want your votes to be based on the feelings of the whole village or are you on your own, votes based on your thoughts/gut feelings depending on which you use? It would just be nice to get an idea of how this is going to work.

For me, dear Kath, my authoritarian choice is definite. This game's system simply asks for using it the way that somebody elects me, and then I vote according to my own best choices. Forget listening to voters after I have been nominated. It is weak. This is not a People's Republic. This is Spar--- er, sorry, that's from somewhere different. A bit more seriously: simply put, I am going to vote for the person I see as the most suspicious. However still, of course it is helpful if people post their suspect lists or such, first because they can help anyway during the game, and second because indeed, who knows, perhaps one may get some idea from them which he wouldn't have thought of himself. But, just do not expect however, that when five of you say that you want to lynch person X, I am going to do it just because the popular vote wants it. No, you have picked your representatives, and now you have them. It is upon them. THE POWER IS NO LONGER IN YOUR HANDS, PEOPLE!!! Only during the Rep-election.

Which is exactly how this Republic works.

******INNER WHATEVER #2 - EXPRESSING SOME GENERAL THOUGHTS ON SOME MATTERS*******
Now if you read Lommy's post 333 there are exactly the answers I would have expected there. I am not sure what was that Agan had problem with, for this is how I understood it. A wolf-agan trying to shed bad light on Lommy? But that would surprise me, as I suppose Agan more clever than to use such weak grounds to raise suspicion for people.

As for the Lommy and Shasta questioning itself, when it comes to the "triangle", I don't see anything weird on Lommy, but Shasta seems to me like "jumping on a train" (a bandwagon, one might say, to raise the proper connotations), misunderstanding Lommy and trying to set it up as suspicion (resp. to try to continue on a bandwagon of suspicion, which, actually, from Lommy's part wasn't really a suspicion but merely a statement).

Originally Posted by Aganzir

More exaggeration: she says neither Greenie nor I spared positive adjectives when trying to justify our votes for Brinn. I called her trustworthy, Greenie good & sensible player and innocentish. To me it doesn't look like either of us was trying to flatter Brinn, least of all me. Then she claims that exaggeration is a part of her style and that she doesn't think she had been exaggerating that far.

Exaggeration! How can you build a case upon that? Really, this seems like really building up a case out of nothing. In Czech we say "sucking it out of your finger", I am not sure of any good equivalent. Simply, making it up out of nothing.

(NOTE OF MYSELF AS POSTER: And I became inclined to ignore the rest of their discussion, for they became just silly, both of them, posting all over the place. I will probably read it later and not now, for it turned into a too much personal issue between the two, of accusing one and the other here and back again. Now just for the general things.)

Originally Posted by the phantom

I'm enjoying the Star Wars quotes. Keep them coming if you want my continued support.

You shouldn't've said that, but sure I would, probably, even without you saying it.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't think I will vote Lommy today. It was after all just a few things that made me suspect her in the first place (which is not enough to make me lynch her on day 1 twice in a row), and her replies to me seem genuinely frustrated in an innocentish way. I'm still suspicious of her but I rather give her the benefit of doubt for now.

So that's how the heated Lommy-Agan exchange ends for now: the end is better though than how I have seen it all the time. If it's genuine and not just backing away, good. I would certainly like to hope so.

So, that is it for now. Now I only hope I did not x-post with too many people.

Hello, Republic!

EDIT: So, x-ed only since some two or so posts from the bottom of page 9. So, no Hello Republic for me yet. *off to read* - but back sooner than before, I hope. (Perhaps it will delay people to read my post now, so they won't post meanwhile too much...)