[Rumil]

Hi Lal and all,

good thread indeed, the Welsh system was 'Ap' for son-of and 'Verch' for daughter-of, though it was apparently ia bit more tricky at times -

Many idiosyncrasies exist in Welsh naming patterns: Patronymics, for example (see Gwynedd Roots No. 32) and the following pattern.

As an example of the old-fashioned habits of Beddgelert in my early days, I may mention the way in which wives and children used to be named. The custom was that the wife never took her husband’s family name, but retained the one she had as a spinster. Thus, my grandmother on my mother’s side was called Ellen HUGHES, daughter of Hugh Hughes of Gwastad Annas. The name of her husband, my grandfather was William PRICHARD, son of Richard WILLIAM, of the Efail Newydd. The name of their eldest son, my uncle (brother to my mother) was Hugh HUGHES and the second son’s name was Richard WILLIAMS. The mother had the privilege of naming her first born after her own family, in case it was a boy; but if it happened to be a girl, she took her name from the father’s family, for which reason my mother’s maiden name was Catherine WILLIAMS. This remained her name to the day of her death, and the old people of Beddgelert persisted in calling me, so long as I was at home, William PRICHARD, after my grandfather, as I was my mother’s eldest child.

Another variation of the above naming custom was to name the eldest son after his paternal grandfather, and the eldest daughter after her paternal grandmother. The second son and daughter took the names of their maternal grandparents and the third son and daughter the names of their parents.

Of course this a bit much for the English to understand so Ap-Rhys went to Price, Ap-William went to Williams etc.