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Lalwendë · 03-10-2009, 03:30 PM

An interesting thing I read about recently was the discovery of an ancient temple complex in Eastern Turkey. This was far, far older than anything previously discovered. Stonehenge was built around 2,000BC, around the same time the Egyptians were building. This discovery has been dated at 10,000BC, when mankind was still a hunter-gatherer culture. That they were building a huge temple must mean they were also reliant upon agriculture.

Archaeologists link this to the origins of the Biblical story of Eden and the Fall. Before agriculture, this part of the world was lush, green and plentiful, but after, it became dry and infertile. Humans in the area suddenly had a hard life, tilling the soil to get a crust to eat. Just as in Genesis it says Man must live from the soil after the Fall.

Anyway, you can Google it to find out more - it's fascinating. Eden existed, it was the world of the hunter-gatherer, and agriculture was 'the fall' which resulted in endless toil.

This idea of 'Eden' is a strong draw for us if we think about Valinor, a place of plenty, of little or no toil, of wandering happily in the woodlands. But is that idea also one we can reconcile with hunting, killing animals and skinning them for food and clothing? Can we imagine the Elves doing this? Hunting is a very visceral thing. If we imagine the alternative, that Elves were veggies or vegans, it would also mean they would have to toil - apparently you can just about grow enough wheat on an allotment to grow half a dozen loaves of bread, so a huge population of veggie Elves would mean a lot of trees cut down.

Or did they just not eat? Even given that they are fantasy creations, it requires a huge suspension of the sense to think they would not eat enough to require significant farming or hunting.

Or did they not breed? They must have done. Tolkien states that Elves love to have children and that they only do not when they live in warlike, difficult conditions, which we are led to believe simply do not exist in Valinor.

Or is Valinor a kind of limitless, shifting place, expanding to provide ever more 'Lebensraum' for ever more Elves? Is that possible? If not, then whichever way I look at it logically, there's a distinct whiff of something dystopian about the place.

03-10-2009, 03:30 PM	#12
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	An interesting thing I read about recently was the discovery of an ancient temple complex in Eastern Turkey. This was far, far older than anything previously discovered. Stonehenge was built around 2,000BC, around the same time the Egyptians were building. This discovery has been dated at 10,000BC, when mankind was still a hunter-gatherer culture. That they were building a huge temple must mean they were also reliant upon agriculture. Archaeologists link this to the origins of the Biblical story of Eden and the Fall. Before agriculture, this part of the world was lush, green and plentiful, but after, it became dry and infertile. Humans in the area suddenly had a hard life, tilling the soil to get a crust to eat. Just as in Genesis it says Man must live from the soil after the Fall. Anyway, you can Google it to find out more - it's fascinating. Eden existed, it was the world of the hunter-gatherer, and agriculture was 'the fall' which resulted in endless toil. This idea of 'Eden' is a strong draw for us if we think about Valinor, a place of plenty, of little or no toil, of wandering happily in the woodlands. But is that idea also one we can reconcile with hunting, killing animals and skinning them for food and clothing? Can we imagine the Elves doing this? Hunting is a very visceral thing. If we imagine the alternative, that Elves were veggies or vegans, it would also mean they would have to toil - apparently you can just about grow enough wheat on an allotment to grow half a dozen loaves of bread, so a huge population of veggie Elves would mean a lot of trees cut down. Or did they just not eat? Even given that they are fantasy creations, it requires a huge suspension of the sense to think they would not eat enough to require significant farming or hunting. Or did they not breed? They must have done. Tolkien states that Elves love to have children and that they only do not when they live in warlike, difficult conditions, which we are led to believe simply do not exist in Valinor. Or is Valinor a kind of limitless, shifting place, expanding to provide ever more 'Lebensraum' for ever more Elves? Is that possible? If not, then whichever way I look at it logically, there's a distinct whiff of something dystopian about the place. __________________ Gordon's alive!