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**lindil** · 12-26-2002, 05:34 AM

I supose this is one of many ways in which the movies have polluted the understanding of M-E.
Nowhere in my reading of M-E do I ever come away with the idea uttered by 'Galadriel' and Agent Elrond 'Men are weak'.

While it may have been mentioned in the writings of JRRT, I do not think it ever had the same flavor or emphasis as in the movies.

Yes in many ways they were weak compared to Elves, but it was the Numenoreans who throughout the Second Age were the masters of the mortal Lands, saved the 'mighty' Elves of Lindon and Eriador.

So clearly the Numenoreans and their descendants are depicted as being the closest in nature to the Elves, and thus superior to other Men, but as pointed out above, the Rohirrim have by the 4th age become more like the average Gondorian, and the average Gondorian had become more like the Rohirrim.

The rohirrim were however an exceptionally noble and wise people even for descendants of the Elf-Friends of the Three Houses. For so also were the Dunlendings [according to some obscure note of HoME or UT] and possibly those mighty men of Bree.

In the Silm and later HomE[11-12] Men are shown to be the physical equal to Elves in many respects such as Turin when he lives and fights among the Doriathrim, only Beleg [ not even mablung!] was his better in the Marches.

Also the Elves of Beleriand were amazed at Men that they would spend their lives so freely to fight Morgoth alongside the Elves, when they knew they had such short lives here. For the Elves it was seemingly a smaller matter to devote a millenia or so to fighting Morgoth. So that seems to be more a sign of strength.

again in the Fellowship [the Book!], Boromir and Aragorn as having far greater 'strength' [physically] than Legolas [ who can however run on the snow instead].

Now where the Elves excell far beyond all but the lords of Men such as Denethor and Aragorn is in their command over their hroa [body]by their fea [spirit].In this JRRT says in Osanwe-Kenta that the Elves were much more gifted than mankind.

But physically and morally a Man [especially a Dunadan or Numenorean] could atttain similar levels of 'being' if you will.

Welcome to the board Aragorn_Protector.
btw: you can fix your thread title if you wish by hitting the edit icon and rewriting your topic line.

[ December 26, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

12-26-2002, 05:34 AM	#9
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	I supose this is one of many ways in which the movies have polluted the understanding of M-E. Nowhere in my reading of M-E do I ever come away with the idea uttered by 'Galadriel' and Agent Elrond 'Men are weak'. While it may have been mentioned in the writings of JRRT, I do not think it ever had the same flavor or emphasis as in the movies. Yes in many ways they were weak compared to Elves, but it was the Numenoreans who throughout the Second Age were the masters of the mortal Lands, saved the 'mighty' Elves of Lindon and Eriador. So clearly the Numenoreans and their descendants are depicted as being the closest in nature to the Elves, and thus superior to other Men, but as pointed out above, the Rohirrim have by the 4th age become more like the average Gondorian, and the average Gondorian had become more like the Rohirrim. The rohirrim were however an exceptionally noble and wise people even for descendants of the Elf-Friends of the Three Houses. For so also were the Dunlendings [according to some obscure note of HoME or UT] and possibly those mighty men of Bree. In the Silm and later HomE[11-12] Men are shown to be the physical equal to Elves in many respects such as Turin when he lives and fights among the Doriathrim, only Beleg [ not even mablung!] was his better in the Marches. Also the Elves of Beleriand were amazed at Men that they would spend their lives so freely to fight Morgoth alongside the Elves, when they knew they had such short lives here. For the Elves it was seemingly a smaller matter to devote a millenia or so to fighting Morgoth. So that seems to be more a sign of strength. again in the Fellowship [the Book!], Boromir and Aragorn as having far greater 'strength' [physically] than Legolas [ who can however run on the snow instead]. Now where the Elves excell far beyond all but the lords of Men such as Denethor and Aragorn is in their command over their hroa [body]by their fea [spirit].In this JRRT says in Osanwe-Kenta that the Elves were much more gifted than mankind. But physically and morally a Man [especially a Dunadan or Numenorean] could atttain similar levels of 'being' if you will. Welcome to the board Aragorn_Protector. btw: you can fix your thread title if you wish by hitting the edit icon and rewriting your topic line. [ December 26, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.