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Kent2010 · 03-30-2009, 08:02 AM

I think Patriotism is more than love and willingness to fight for the land. It's an 'us' and 'them' question that William mentioned.

Once a nation has been established the problem facing that place is what's our identity? Or in the words of Bismark...'We have created Germany, now it's time to create Germans.' Should Germany include Austria? Catholics? Those are the types of questions facing any nation.

It was the same in the US, this is the Constitution of the United States of America, but what does it mean to be an American? Geography became one of the most important subjects of study, because it named things, it identified places. Maps were rampant. Land surveying was a popular profession.

I'm not well versed in LOTR, but will ask a couple things and maybe something useful to add. What is the importance of maps in Middle-earth? Is it something to identify places, and within what are the people like? Why do people want to avoid Lorien and Fangorn?

And The Hobbits, they might have a loose conception of The Shire as a 'nation,' but there is a distrust for outsiders and there even is an 'us' and 'them' identity from within....'There's something queer about that Bilbo, he's not like us - oh and those Bucklanders are odd too.'

I think patriotism implies both, a sense of land, but also an identity. What does it mean to be a Gondorian? Denethor loved Boromir more than Faramir, but why? Was it because Faramir didn't represent Denethor's image of a 'Gondorian'?

03-30-2009, 08:02 AM	#19
Kent2010 Wight Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA Posts: 240	I think Patriotism is more than love and willingness to fight for the land. It's an 'us' and 'them' question that William mentioned. Once a nation has been established the problem facing that place is what's our identity? Or in the words of Bismark...'We have created Germany, now it's time to create Germans.' Should Germany include Austria? Catholics? Those are the types of questions facing any nation. It was the same in the US, this is the Constitution of the United States of America, but what does it mean to be an American? Geography became one of the most important subjects of study, because it named things, it identified places. Maps were rampant. Land surveying was a popular profession. I'm not well versed in LOTR, but will ask a couple things and maybe something useful to add. What is the importance of maps in Middle-earth? Is it something to identify places, and within what are the people like? Why do people want to avoid Lorien and Fangorn? And The Hobbits, they might have a loose conception of The Shire as a 'nation,' but there is a distrust for outsiders and there even is an 'us' and 'them' identity from within....'There's something queer about that Bilbo, he's not like us - oh and those Bucklanders are odd too.' I think patriotism implies both, a sense of land, but also an identity. What does it mean to be a Gondorian? Denethor loved Boromir more than Faramir, but why? Was it because Faramir didn't represent Denethor's image of a 'Gondorian'? __________________ an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind Last edited by Kent2010; 03-30-2009 at 08:07 AM.