[Brinniel]

Pfft...two pages while I'm gone? Well, I'm just gonna comment on quotes as I go instead of reading everything first so I don't forget anything.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, if you really suspected Sally and Firefoot - and you were an ordo seeing nothing particularly good/bad in me and Kuru - wouldn't you have wished to persuade some others to see your point?

I didn't think I would need to do any serious persuading. Around the time I intended to make my vote I saw there were others concerned about Sally and Firefoot too. I thought they might vote in the same direction.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also, if you were a goodie you would have wanted to negotiate the lynch with the others. Why do you try to imply to us (in your earlier post toDay) you were having really a tough time deciding between Firefoot and Sally like it was something important (which it wasn't because you left your vote to the last possible instant so that no one could react to your vote) as meanwhile you don't give a damn to who gets lynched by not trying to influence the vote / negotiate it with others still to vote?

There was twenty minutes left. I'm a slow poster. There was no time for negotiations. It was a big rush at the end and everyone just did their own thing rather than work together.

I'm not sure why you're making such a big deal out of it that I mentioned I had trouble deciding between Sally and Firefoot. The reason I mentioned it was because I was complaining about all the last minute voting, which is hypocritical since I did it too. And I admit that was an error on my part and I wish I had voted earlier. I'll do my best to avoid letting it happen again.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Your idea of calling me the safe-voter or someone shying away from decisive voting is ridiculous even if you didn't notice that error of Nilp not highlighting his vote. Why would I waste four bonus votes for nothing when I'm about to be lynched? Really. At .59 I was still leading the tally. You think someone would love to be indecisive at that kind of minute?

Okay, I do accept that explanation. Nilp's vote was highlighted by the time you and I posted so I thought you already knew it counted when you made your vote.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I just tried to awaken people to the problem we have in our hands. If you think my theory is bad you should argue for a better one and not blame me for trying. The moment you come up with a better working plan I will abandon mine and change to yours.

I already do have my own plan: We shouldn't use our bonus votes frivolously but only when we feel confident that our suspect is evil. Because you are right; the baddies are dangerous with all those extra votes...but they'll be even more dangerous with all those extra votes if most of the innocents have few.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So we need to create an athmosphere where anyone having ten bonus-votes left feels s/he is going to be lynched because of it - or which would be better: we should force the baddies to defend their mate(s) with their bonus-votes, if we just got a good enough threat to them.

I already mentioned this but if you pressure everyone including innocents to use their bonus votes when they don't want to, it'll only increase the chances of a mislynch because they'll vote for someone they may not strongly suspect and later in the game when they are confident of their suspects, there will be little to no bonus votes left to use. And anyway, do you really think the baddies will definitely use their bonus votes to save their mates? Take a look at past games...there are plenty of players here who would be happy to sacrifice their mate to make themselves look good. I wouldn't be surprised if a wolf used some of their bonus votes against a mate...because who would suspect that?

Originally Posted by Kent

The 2nd scenario is just odd, because how would Firefoot know Agan was not the seer, believe Agan was an ordo, and decide to set her up as the seer for the wolves to go after that night - if Firefoot was not the seer herself?

I know the second scenario does seem a bit absurd and I didn't think it was likely, but the exact thing has occurred in past games where an ordo sets up another ordo to be killed...so I didn't want to eliminate the possibility.

Originally Posted by Kent

That person whether wolf or innocent will most likely use their bonus to save themselves, which is I think the bigger point, to start levelling out the field.

Yes, if that person is there to save/defend themselves. But not everyone sticks around until deadline and may not expect to be lynched.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Cool down Brinn, this is only a game. And you know I love you: this is pretty straightforwards, no sarcasm or smilies included.

Yes, I know that. I'm only angry with you for in-game reasons, not RL. So no worries.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this is interesting. If you would manage to bag a wolf - what good would that be?
*Ponders about it: what good would there be of lynching a wolf toDay? Hard to see... what good would there be?

I didn't say there wasn't good in bagging a wolf, but that it's no good to use all my votes on one person, even if they are a wolf. Why? Because:

a) Even if I put a wolf strongly in the lead with 11 votes, it doesn't mean they'll get lynched. There may be several others that will do everything they can to save that person thinking they are innocent (or perhaps if they are a wolf saving their mate).

b) Even if that wolf gets lynched, will it necessarily be just because of me? Because maybe that person can get lynched without all those bonus votes if others suspect them enough. And yes, I may have used all my bonus votes on a wolf...but there are three baddies here, and four if you count the cobbler. So what if I need some of those bonus votes to help bag another wolf later? Well that's just too bad because there won't be any left.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The baddies will probably kill those innocents with the most votes left by Nights (see Firefoot with ten votes). Also they would like to keep their votes to themselves if they need not use them - and they, unlike us - know when they need to use them. And remember that Thuringwethil may suck ten votes from an innocent the Night before the baddies decide to make their final attack if there is one. Then they will have 40-50 votes to spend on one Day which we innocents can never stand up against.

Now if the baddies killed all the innocents with 10 bonus votes then kept all their votes to themselves, then they'd be making themselves pretty obvious targets, don't you think?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Just think there are three romantic heroes around with ten votes. One gets killed by Thurnigwethil and her/his ten extra votes are in the possession of the baddies the next Day. Then the two remaining ten-voters disagree with each other who's the wolf and vote different people.

Why do you keep going under the assumption that all the baddies will save their votes until the end? That's a really bad assumption to make..

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But you should actually convince us - well me at least - why what I said about your actions in the end of Day2 are not true to begin with. Getting angry or hurt is one way of trying to do it but I have seen such shows that this is not quite enough (remember Rikae back then really bringing all of us others to tears with her show - but many enough of us stood firm and lynched her, as the baddie she turned out to be).

Do you really think I'm trying to use my emotions as a way to convince you of somthing? I certainly hope not, because I don't do that. I'm a naturally sensitive person and when I get upset by something my emotions do tend to flood out and I honestly can't help it. But I'm doing my best to explain my actions with words; I'm not sure what else to say since you don't seem to believe any of my explanations. I voted for someone I found suspicious, but apparently that's not good enough.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'm leaning towards Brinn being innocent right now, and would rather not see her go. She definitely has the air of an ordo who's irritated at being constantly suspected by the same person. Sidenote - has anyone else noticed that every time someone gets irritated with having to defend themselves, Nogrod brings up Rikae as an excuse to attack them anyway? I think it's happened, like... every game I've ever played with him in it.

Yeah, it is irritating to feel personally attacked. I'm not saying Nogrod isn't allowed to suspect or attack me at all, but I think sometimes players will cling onto something against someone and not bat an eyelash at anything they say in defense. Rune has done this with me and I think that's what Kent did to Kuru yesterDay. It doesn't necessarily mean that these people are guilty, but I feel it's a bit close minded.

And I also agree with you on the second part. Rikae's her own person and has her own tactics. Just because she has used emotions as an act before doesn't mean everyone else will do the same. And anyway, was she just acting in that game? I think Rikae has been genuinely irritated before, regardless of her role.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I'm a bit concerned with Gwath's multitude of posts. Why not organize into one epic one?

That's just Gwath's typical style of posting. He does this every game. I'm surprised you haven't noticed it before.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I think I may get what is not being said by that Shasta. Just because someone may get irritated or frustrated with defending themselves; doesn't mean it makes you innocent. Perhaps he is using Rikae as an example of putting on a good show in defense of herself to get off the lynch block?

That your acting skills should not be the ultimate decider in clearing yourself, when you are suspected.

No, open frustration does not necessarily make one innocent. But it also doesn't mean someone is just acting. I really think emotions have nothing to do with roles because both innocents and baddies can get equally frustrated so I don't think we should judge whether someone is innocent or guilty based off their emotions.

Originally Posted by Izzy

He seems jumpy and I'm not liking his interactions with Brin. They have both defended each other when there really wasn't a need for it.

When have I defended Shasta?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But the similarities between the two scenarios are scarce and thin indeed - and if Brinn actually suggested the similar thing would have happened here, it looks quite frivolous indeed. That was far from it!

I mean that was werewolf-history in the making when it happened. A perfect ploy to distract the wolves with a high risk two innocents trusting each other, and they managed to marshall it through. And surely Firefoot probably even doesn't know that kind of trick has been performed.

So Brinn was overstating that one.

I wasn't overstating anything. I opened it up as a possibility, but I never said it was a likely scenario.

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Okay, I'm all caught up. Now onto my suspects.

Nogrod: For his aggression, pessimism, and tactics. I really don't like how he's going about voting and while it is important to get a baddie toDay, I feel like he's acting a bit melodramatic about our situation. I don't suspect Nogrod for attacking me, but more like how he's going about it. He's been twisting my words which gives me another reason to feel uncomfortable.

Kent: There's something about him that irks me. Is it just me or has he been following around Nogrod a lot? He just seems rather quick to trust him. I easily suspect someone who makes an effort to keep on an influential player's good side. Though I rather doubt both of them would be wolves...that'd be a bit too obvious.

Sally I'm still a bit uneasy about, though I do need to look at her again.

I'm becoming quite uncomfortable of Fea who keeps voting out of nowhere without explanation. This isn't Sally's game, so surely she can't have a posting requirement.

Other players I'd like to keep an eye on are Formy, Izzy, and Nilp.